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Burned smell transmission fluid and high oil use

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jrichard View Drop Down
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    Posted: September-30-2010 at 5:14pm
I have a 2008 SAN 210, EX343 with PCM 1.23 v-drive.

I have two things going on and wanted to get myself informed before I take the boat into the dealer.

First, the transmission fluid has a definite burned odor to it, but it doesn't appear discolored and I haven't had any other problems with the tranny. Is this odor a cause for concern? I know there are a number of folks here, including Eric of Fantastic Finish Marine, who can give me good advice.

FWIW, I change the fluid when I change the oil at 50 hour intervals.

Second, my oil consumption was 2 quarts during the last 50 hour service interval. Typically, I've been burning in the 1-1.5 quart range, which still seems high to me. I contacted PCM directly, and was told to expect to burn a quart or a little more per 50 hour period. Does anyone else have experience with later models using so much oil and, if so, how was it resolved?

Thanks,

-JR

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Waterdog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-30-2010 at 6:07pm
If your using it,where is it going? Automatic transmissions leak oil or on a car with a modulator valve the vacuum sucks it in to the engine. Eric will see this and be all over it. It should smell like hydrolic fluid and be "cherry" red, a burnt smell is just wrong! I only have had 1to1 B/W boat transmissions. Seems like the PCM guy would have been concerned about the smell at least.
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jrichard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrichard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-30-2010 at 7:07pm
It's two separate issues:

1. transmission fluid burned smell (mainly wanting to know what might be the cause, what it means, and if it's a concern)

2. Motor oil consumption...presumably its being consumed by the motor as there are no visible leaks. It must be passing by the ring(s) or valve seal(s). (Mainly wanting to know if others have experienced this on the Excalibur motors and how it was resolved--and I'm curious as to possible causes other than bad valve seals & stuck oil rings)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-30-2010 at 10:24pm
Interesting on the 343 oil consumption. The 502's all use varying amounts of oil. Mine is about a quart all season, 50-70 hours. I spoke to another owner, Todinator, from PN recently. He goes through a quart every 2-3 hours!!!! My local friend's 502 goes through a quart every 15 or so. Todd called Jody and talked about this. Seems his has a looser tolerances than most. None of us are leaking, and are not burning it in the sense you notice it in th exhaust or anything like that. My useage is tolerable, but the quart every couple hours is crazy to me.
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Gary S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-30-2010 at 10:49pm
Mike I know it's not really the same but we have 4 trucks at work with 502's in them.They all go thru a quart a week,200 to 250 miles, One older one with a 454 does not have this problem.Our garage mechanic thinks that the cylinder walls are thinner because of the bigger bore allowing flexing and then letting the oil past.They are all 02's with about 70K on them.
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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2010 at 5:55am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Our garage mechanic thinks that the cylinder walls are thinner because of the bigger bore allowing flexing and then letting the oil past.

Gary,
I'm not too sure about that mechanic. Flexible cast iron?


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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2010 at 7:12am
why is it that when you pop a head and find .060 ridge at the top from wear and the piston slapping that it doesnt burn any oil? just thought i would throw that out there.
if the oil is burnt it will darken, after years and years and years...thats said with haste, of popping a good known transmission dipstick and still to me they smell burnt but are good.
really though if its burnt you will notice slippage which basically flash burns the oil quickly and will darken, burnt oil will smell up a 6000 sq ft building so if the oil is burnt you will have other signs
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrichard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2010 at 4:54pm
WRT the transmission, it sounds like the burnt smell isn't a huge concern if I don't have discoloration and/or other symptoms...which I don't. But, I've had inboards and v-drives for 15 years, and after 50 hours, my tranny fluid is stinky compared to what I'm used to.

RE: oil consumption, probably the best thing is to have the dealer to a compression and/or leak down test and see what it shows.

Thanks for the replies--I appreciate it!
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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2010 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by jrichard jrichard wrote:


RE: oil consumption, probably the best thing is to have the dealer to a compression and/or leak down test and see what it shows.

The dealer??? Why!!! The cost of the compression tester is probably a 10th of what the dealer will charge. Do it yourself and you'll get a honest answer. All they will want to do is sell you a new crate engine. Plus, I'd be worried the dealer would have a mechanic competent enough to actually do a compression and leak down.

Hopefully you don't frequent the dealer especially for parts!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrichard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2010 at 7:20pm
The boat is under warranty, so the dealer is where it's headed. If the answer re: oil consumption is "Don't worry about it....it's normal," then I'll have someone else look at it and work directly with PCM. (Based on Eric's response, sounds like the transmission isn't of concern.)

Unfortunately, I'm not very happy with how my dealer has handled things in the past. All has eventually been taken care of, but it's generally involved a lot of my time/energy/research. Nevertheless, that's where it has to start. And that's why I wanted feedback on these two items--so I know where I stand relative to what's normal for this engine/tranny combo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-02-2010 at 8:59am
Have it noted on the invoice or work order for future reference, so on day 2 when the warranty expires....
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-02-2010 at 9:09am
Originally posted by jrichard jrichard wrote:

The boat is under warranty, so the dealer is where it's headed. If the answer re: oil consumption is "Don't worry about it....it's normal," then I'll have someone else look at it and work directly with PCM.

Sorry, I forgot that PCM's latest warranty was 3 years.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-02-2010 at 9:34am
Anyone in the business knows how to say...
"What year is it?"
You answer...
"Oh, they all do that."
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-02-2010 at 9:41am
Pete, you and I know mis diagnosis at the dealer could be a good thing, wound up with a complete drop in gt-40 alt to bellhousing because of a hairline crack on the intake...flush and fire
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrichard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-03-2010 at 1:51pm
Good idea re: documenting on workorder both issues. I'll let everyone know the outcome.
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