83 SN restore in Idaho

Thanks BKH - After a long winter it's nice to be making some progress on it again.

Just wondering if those layers are going to be sufficent. Defaulting to the experts here for their advice.

Ya Pete. That's what I was thinking also. I'm guessing that the biaxial adds a lot of strength also. Will probably lay it up along the sides then cap them off with another layer of biax, on the mains any way. I think that the secondaries will be fine with the current layup. Especially after I build the floor. I am planning on taking that layup all the way from the floor down the side of the secondary to the hull, should be plenty of strength there.

Problem is, you can't find epoxy mat. No one is making it. I'm told that regular mat is difficult to work with in epoxy as it falls apart. The mat is easier to shape around the stringers on the first layer, make the turns, avoid air bubbles, etc.

After talking with Joe in NY, and TRBenj, I am planning to do the first layer of floor, over the stringers, with a layer of 10 oz cloth. Hopefully, I can get a nice fit. Than I plan to do a couple of layers of Biax to build up thickness. These guys seemed to think that would be enough.

BKH

Hey Seth, I don't know if the mat is compatible. I am a relative neophyte with fiberglass, and I have not personally tried the mat with epoxy. It may work. I don't know.

What I do know is the in the past one could get mat for epoxy resin. It was stitched together, I'm told the stitching made it better to work with in epoxy.

When I talked to US composite, they confirmed they can't get epoxy mat from anyone. They also suggested that regular mat could be hard to work with in epoxy. They steered me toward biaxial.

If I had some mat, I'd probably try it on some test pieces and see how it works. In the little fiberglass work I have done in the past, I liked mat on the first layer and the last layer. As I said, it forms up more easily on the first layer, and it leaves a smooter surface than does cloth on the last layer.

BKH

I've finally made some progress...slow progress...but it is progress.









I haven't decided if I need to put two layers of biaxial on the mains. They currently have a layer running up the sides then a cap that runs down to the intersection of the hull. That gives them two layers on the sides but only one layer bonding to the hull. Any thoughts, I know Pete said earlier that I should do two especially in the area of the motor mount. Is that the prevailing opinion?

Thanks, Seth

Mike, Ya - it's layered 2", 4"x2, 8"x2, biaxial up the sides, biaxial cap over top. I layed a wide layer of biaxial as the first layer and I would have to go really wide for a second layer to have any contact with the hull. I might have layed that first layer to wide. This is why I question the second layer. Everthing feels super bomber now, but I also don't want to f#@& anything up and have it all blow apart under a hard acceleration. Oh and two layers of matt between hull and stringers.

I only use 2,4,8 and capped with two layers of cloth. Obviously the boat is not back together yet, but those stringers are darned solid. BKH

I think the original build up was the same. I found that to be an area of significant deteriation when I pulled it apart. Plus I wasn't sure I could or wanted to re-create the build the factory did. In my lay up that area is actually open to the bildge with a drain. I don't think much water will get there but at least noe there is a way out. I made it as close as I could to the mains so there would be plenty of support for the motor box.

I also couldn't believe how much more solid my stingers felt after the first layer or biax. Like I said before they seem bomb proof.

Very interesting. Joe's '83 battery box (which I am using in our BFN) had the same exact port in it. It looked a little hokey, so I figured it had been added later. I have no idea what its purpose would have been- the cavity the box sat in should have been filled with foam, so there wouldnt have been anything to access. Maybe it was utilized when the boat was being assembled?

I removed the port and glassed the hole shut... then cut a new one at the opposite end of the box and reinstalled it. Im using it as a drain access point, since that will be the lowest point of the hull (we are not refoaming).

While youre reworking the box, give some thought to the other openings. We chose to go bigger on the battery cable conduit (3") to make it easier to get the cables and terminals through. We also couldnt come up with a battery box drain concept that I liked, so we ended up plugging that hole as well.

Did your boat have an access port behind the battery box in the floor? My '85 had a port behind the box in the floor. The bulk head was right behind the battery box so there was no foam aft of there.
I assume it was to allow access to the vent hose's and/or the bottom pylon bolt. Maybe that's what it is for??
After looking at your demo pictures on the first page, it's definitely to allow access to the bottom of the pylon area.

Well it's been a while since I have updated this, really just started to make some progress again. So for any one that might have been interested here is an update. As you can see in the following photos I have finished pouring the foam and shaping it. I have dry fitted the front floor sections, I decided to use wood all the way forward. I don't really have a reason but it seems like it's going to work well. I have a little touch up to do and I need to CPES the wood for the floor but I should be laying the glass on the floor in a day or two. Time to pick out the carpet color !

Seth,
I hope you're CPES's that ply! Look'n fantastic!!!!

Looks great Seth. Cant wait to see her back on the water!!

Nice, my son is 3......and she'll be shocked when you finished it early..

Hey John, Thanks. I actually bought the foam from two different members of this site. They had bought it and decided latter to go the no foam route - lots of pros and cons to both methods that have been discussed in great detail in other posts. It is the same foam that US Composites sells. I have two small kids and felt that the benefits out weighed the negatives.

I used a similar approach to leveling the foam that most others do. I first poured it then I cut it down with a hand saw. That brought it down to about the level I needed it but the saw being very flexible was a little hard to control, especially at the tip. I then attacked the high areas with an orbital sander. A belt sander would have worked better but I don't own one and my budget for the resto is about shot. So I took a section of 1x6 and stappled a piece of 50grit sandpaper to it. That worked really well. I did most of the rough work by sight then used a straight edge to work out the minute differences. I tried to leave the foam a little higher at the gunnel and slope it towards the bilge. It ended up not being much of a slope, maybe an 1/8" at most.

I started the pour at the stern and worked forward. I did the rough cut there before I filled the bow. I used some of the cut offs to supplement the pour in the bow since that area holds the most foam. It took roughly two gallons per side and 1 1/2 gallons in the bow. US Compostes sells it by the pound. I don't remember what the conversion is but it came out to one gallon of each part A and part B per side and 3/4 of each for the front. I'll probably use most of the rest in the air box area and a couple of touch ups I need to do.

I found that the trick with the foam was to use small amounts in warm temps, 80 degrees plus. Stir very rapidly for 25 seconds and pour. Make sure that you are ready because there is precious little time to do the pour once mixed. I used a stack of plastic party cups that I bought at the grocery store. They have a little line about an inch up from the bottom and I found I could use them multiple times before the sprung a leak or got to goupy to work with.

The foam was kind of fun to work with as long as I had the area totally preped. It felt like the most rapid progression of the resto so far. Just remember that any thing it touches it sticks relentlessly to, skin, hair, clothes, side of the boat...you get the picture.

Hope this helps. Oh ya I used the 2lb foam, I can't believe how solid it feels.

Good luck.