1.88:1 tranny for a 454??? |
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buddysproject
Newbie Joined: October-23-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Posted: April-02-2008 at 4:04am |
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ok, well you guys have been great so far. I was reading for most of the night and i can't seem to figure out what ratio tranny I will need, if I decide to swap out my 351w with a 454. I have an opportunity to get a 454 with a 1.88:1 borg tranny from a friend that is repowering his boat with diesels. Will this transmission work on an '87 sn 2001?
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"If it can't be done in, on, or behind a Nautique it isn't worth doing."
Gregg 1987 SN |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Gregg, Here's my opinion. I feel that you would be getting into a big area of unknowns because a prop change would be needed. I'm sure you have read many of the threads regarding props and the "experimenting" or testing that many go through. Some prop changes work on some boats and others don't. You can talk to to prop manufacturers and they can run the calculations but the bottom line is they will tell you to try a prop change but really don't know exactly what will happen. With the 1.88, you would need to increase the prop pitch and or the prop diameter to compensate for the lower RPM. Increasing prop diameter is tough because to get any room under the boat to swing it a taller strut would be needed and this would increase the shaft angle. This would drastically change the hulls performance and I feel for the worse. Increasing the pitch to a point needed I feel you would be getting into the higher pitches where the efficiency of a prop drops off dramaticly. Efficiency or lack of slip is calculated by testing a boat with GPS speed, the prop RPM and the pitch of the prop.
The 1.88 is made for large boats that swing large props. I don't feel it is a good idea. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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I tend to agree you won't be looking at good propellor availability. I am in the middle of switching from a 1.1 to a 1.23 transmission which is much simpler due to the fact that a later version of my boat used that tranny but even with that the front engine mounting blocks, rear transmission mounting blocks and mounts, Prop shaft, and prop must still all be changed. Additionally the 1:23 transmissions are pushing it in terms of shaft size with the 1:88 your gonna need a larger shaft, so you can throw in a stuffing box and a strut and bearing.
Normally you would see that boat with a 454 with a 1:1 borg warner, they do make a big block version, which is slightly longer than the one you have on your 351. My guess is that your 454 possibility is a standard (same as automotive) rotation, the 351 you have was originally reverse rotation from the factory, thats a whole other can of worms. Anyway you want a to put a 454 in there, either rotation completely possible with money and time... using a 1:88 transmission with it very expensive and you won't find a prop for it when your done... not recommended. -Joe. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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ski boats rely on a fast prop speed to shoot them out of the hole, its like the tires on a drag car, they want these props to hook up, as these guy's said if your turning your engine at 1880 rpms (with a 1.88) you will only get a prop speed of 1000 rpms, good for props with mass to move more weight and push a boat up on plane. with a 1.88 you would be way past the torque curve and the boat would propbably top out in the 20's
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21124 |
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While I agree that the 1.88 in a ski boat is unproven, I dont know if I would agree with that statement. True, its probably out of the ideal ratio range, which seems to be settling close to 1.25:1, and prop selection would be a huge hassle- but I think it would be an interesting experiment. With the right prop, reduction drive ski boats have very similar top end speeds as their 1:1 counterparts, with improved holeshot to boot. One only need to look as far as the 1.23 PCM's and the Mastercraft Powerslot boats (both 1.26:1 and 1.5:1) to prove that. 1.88 isnt that far out of the proven envelope and Id like to see someone try it- though it surely wont be me. Dont go-fast outboards have a huge gear reduction paired to props with 20"+ of pitch? Seems like with the right selection of components, a reduction drive doesnt have to be limited to tugboat-like performance. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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I agree you can get it up to speed with the right prop, question is whether that prop exists and if it is worth the effort and expense. I would say that he would realistically need a prop in the neighborhood of 13.5 x 23-25. Thats not going to happen in a once inch shaft for sure.
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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FWIW-my 1:1 BW spins a 14x14...while it fits nicely, there is not any extra room.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Tim, I'm curious as to the prop Dia. and pitch the powerslots run. Do you know? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21124 |
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I think the 1.5:1 'slots (which is the conventional ratio dating back to the late 70's or early 80's) swung 14x18 wheels. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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Yep acme and oj carry the LH 1 1/8" props 13.7 x 17 up to 13.7x19.5 or so for non splined powerslot applications.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Online Points: 13512 |
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You could buy one of those Ambush props Eric has the hook up on.
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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I feel that getting more than 1.5:1 in a ski boat it's just too much.
A well propped 1.23:1 is noticeable better out of the hole than a 1:1 and places the engine better in the torque curve. I remember my friend's '95 SN with the Gt40 Pro Boss, Power Plus tranny and OJ 4 blade prop as one of the best/strongest boats I have ever driven. |
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pmt2234
Groupie Joined: June-14-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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It's a 454! Thats 103 more than a 351! How bad could it be?
Call some propeller vendors and make sure they can set you up with something and then try it. |
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