fish nautique prop rotation |
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turboapache
Groupie Joined: February-19-2012 Location: Lake Placid Fl Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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Posted: January-05-2018 at 4:45pm |
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I have a fish nautique that I bought without eng and trans. I bought a 351w eng and borg warner velvet drive 1 to 1 trans out of a ski nautique. I am in the process of rebuilding the eng. the eng rotation is standard rotation the same as in a car. the prop on the boat is right hand rotation. Do I have to change the prop to make this work or does the trans convert the rotation.? Thanks to all who can help. I am 72 now and dont know if I am going to be able to complete this project or use the boat when back together. I may have to let it go. so let me know if there is any interest. Thanks again
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there is no substitution for cubic inches.
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Fl Inboards
Grand Poobah Joined: January-20-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2118 |
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If you are going left rotation then yes you will need a new left hand propeller. And no the borg is not full reversing, so also you will need to turn or index the front pump on the transmission to turn to the standard left rotation if it was set up to turn right rotation.
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Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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Thought I'd ask what might be a silly question................. or maybe not so silly
A 351 with a Borg Warner from a Ski Nautique is most likely a reverse rotation engine unless it was a swap by a previous owner or something. By the time SN's used LH engines they had Pleasurecraft transmissions behind them and SN's have always turned a RH prop regardless of engine rotation.(thru the use of different transmissions) Are you rebuilding a reverse rotation engine to be a normal rotation engine or have you verified it's normal automotive rotation? If you're rebuilding and changing rotation you could run into rear main seal issues among other things Looking at your old posts it's hard to tell what you might have, so I thought I'd ask and maybe save you some issues and hopefully not confuse you |
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turboapache
Groupie Joined: February-19-2012 Location: Lake Placid Fl Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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I have verified the rotation of the motor, it is the same as the car engine. The eng and trans came out of the boat together.
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there is no substitution for cubic inches.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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Then a new prop should do it for you
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13514 |
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not aware of any LH 351 bg 1:1s from the factory but that's not to say you don't have one on your hands. what boat? probably rebuilt or joined together later in life...
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turboapache
Groupie Joined: February-19-2012 Location: Lake Placid Fl Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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It is a pcm 351 and it came out of an older ski not sure of the year but I helped pull it out of the boat and the tag on the trans says 1 to 1 if that helps. Does anyone know if I put a left hand prop on the boat what if any changes will occur in handling of the boat?
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there is no substitution for cubic inches.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13514 |
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For a fish probably not. I would do it.
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turboapache
Groupie Joined: February-19-2012 Location: Lake Placid Fl Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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If I go to a left hand prop what size and pitch would be best? I am not able to get down and check the prop that is on the boat for any markings. It is a shame to have to change out the prop because the one on the boat is beautiful.
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there is no substitution for cubic inches.
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turboapache
Groupie Joined: February-19-2012 Location: Lake Placid Fl Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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I have seen several vedios of .351 marine engines running and all that I have seen are standard rotation like a car eng.
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there is no substitution for cubic inches.
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MourningWood
Gold Member Joined: June-13-2014 Location: NorCal Status: Offline Points: 915 |
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IIRC up until the adoption of the PCM 40-A (1.23:1) trans (1989) all the CC Ski Nautiques I've been around (whether PCM or Commander) have been RH (non-automotive) rotation.
The BW 1:1 trans does not have means to turn the prop in a direction other than the motor, except in reverse gear. Possible the donor SN may have had a powertrain replaced at some point. There were available PCM/BW 1:1 LH for twin engine use. |
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1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun"
'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Stroboscopic effect???? Harold, How did you determine the engine is a standard left hand rotation? Have you had the engine running? |
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turboapache
Groupie Joined: February-19-2012 Location: Lake Placid Fl Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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I checked the raw water pump impeller and checked the starter rotation to see which way it turned the eng. also you can tell by the waterpump.
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there is no substitution for cubic inches.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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We have had several members who have installed wrong rotation starters by mistake. What rotation is the trans pump indexed for? Was the RWP impeller changed before you got the engine? Was the engine running in the boat with a RH prop it was pulled from? |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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And they used a ton of them (PCM/BW 1:1 LH) in those other brand ski boats, called, Mastercraft , Ski Supreme, Supra and plenty of others back then. For Harold A picture of the front of the transmission looking right at the oil pump would go a long way right now to tell you what direction of rotation it was set up for.. . |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Harold,
I encourage you to take some more time to investigate the engine rotation. Including myself, there are 4 members who have questioned if your 351 is a LH (automotive) engine. I and others feel the only possibility of the engine being a LH is if someone at one time did a RH to a LH swap. We have given you several ideas on how to ID the rotation so take another look and if you can per Kens request post a picture of the front end of the trans showing the pump index position. |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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What is the firing order??????????
1,2,3,4 are on the starboard side 5,6,7,8 are on port side Looking down on the distributor cap & mark where #1 wire is, then mark the rest of them in a CCW rotation. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Ken and Duane (or anyone), Does a SBF have a wrist pin offset? |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Yes and No TRW told me that a 302 is offset and pistons need to be reversed for a RR engine. 351 are not offset ++++ but I would verify before installing. IIRC 302 are offset .060 |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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Or a picture of the distributor gear would be pretty much foolproof
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Speed reading got me again. The first post explains it all. The current engine will indeed need a new prop. He says he has verified rotation |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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If I remember right an oem Ford is not ofset, oem Chevy's are.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Duane, I'm not too sure. I too have reviewed the first post and others and am still not convinced the rotation has been confirmed. We'll see?? Remember, the engine and trans (1:1) came out of a SN. |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Gary, I know for a fact (100% sure) that my 302 Ford pistons are offset .060. Both my .040 pistons that I took out and my .060 oversize pistons that I installed after my rebore are .060 offset. I called the Guru at TRW to verify if the notch went to the front as in a car or to the rear as in a RR boat application. He stated that the notch goes to the rear for my RR engine. Again, remember that mine is a 302 SBF. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Don't doubt you Duane but those are aftermarket pistons. Basically you need to follow the piston manufacturers recommendations.
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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(But don't tell anybody that it is not 100% original). |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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turboapache
Groupie Joined: February-19-2012 Location: Lake Placid Fl Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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After looking at the front pump I can see that the trans is indexed to turn right hand. Now I am confused. I need to do some more research on the parts that came out of the eng. such as the cam and distributor gear, and recheck the starter rotation. I noticed that the pump bolt pattern is not semetrical? I have a file on my computer that shows different views of the eng and trans as they were pulled from the other boat. I dont know how to upload the photos to this site. When we pulled the unit it was still in the aluminum cradle but we cut off the ski pole and it fit perfect in the fish and lined up perfect to the prop shaft. Thanks to anyone who can help.
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there is no substitution for cubic inches.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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Hi Harold
See the thread in the link below, lots of reading but there are pictures, diagrams and explanations. The whole rotation thing can be real confusing but the thread may straighten things out. If your pump says RH at the top then it's set for a normal rotation engine due to how Borg Warner looks at rotation. You should have an arrow near the RH stamping too. It would be pointing to the right. You would have a RH transmission for your normal LH rotation engine because B/W looks from the front and marine engine rotation is viewed from the back. So.................I say you have a transmission set up for a normal rotation engine just like you thought You may have to read the linked thread a couple or a few times to digest all the info If you look at your distributor gear as another from of verification the teeth will slant like this for a LH engine /////// or like this \\\\\\ if you had a RH engine. transmission link |
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turboapache
Groupie Joined: February-19-2012 Location: Lake Placid Fl Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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Just did some checking and all I see including the distrubitor gear and matching cam gear are the same as a automotive cam that I have here in the shop. The arrow at the top of the pump is going to the left as you view the pump straight on. Am I confused or does that not mean it is set up for a reverse rotation eng?
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there is no substitution for cubic inches.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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The head of the arrow should be pointing to the right or clockwise or toward the port side of the boat for your normal rotation engine.
The distributor gear is telling you the engine is normal automotive rotation The transmission arrow should point the same way that the engine rotates |
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