302 ford no spark |
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wadeonminnetonka
Newbie Joined: March-29-2015 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Posted: August-15-2016 at 1:52pm |
Hello,
My daughter has a 1972 Mustang with a ford 302. We replaced the stringers this sumer. It went very well. She is going back to college on Friday and the summer would end better if we could actually get her boat running before she left. She is studying Mechanical Engineering at the University of Wyoming. Fired it up in the driveway yesterday and it ran great. Took it out for a water test this morning, and it ran rough. Then we left the dock, and I took it up on a plane, and as soon as there was a load on the motor it shut off and would not restart. Brought it back to the driveway. Removed the fuel hose at the carb, and cranked the ignition, gas pumped out. When I cycle the throttle, you can see the accelerator pump squirt gas in the carb. Switched the coil with a spare. Did not start. With the ignition on, but not cranking, there is no voltage on the positive side of the coil. If anyone has any ideas, I would really appreciate it. Wade |
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wade
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wadeonminnetonka
Newbie Joined: March-29-2015 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Hey,
I forgot to add. The engine has a mallory ignition. Wade |
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wade
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Wade,
Continue with testing the volts to the coil. I'd start at the ignition key switch at the R terminal. Then to the ballast resistor. |
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wadeonminnetonka
Newbie Joined: March-29-2015 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Pete,
Thanks a million. By the way, your video on how to align the shaft and strut were very helpful for us. I am a carpenter, not a mechanic, which is why the stringer R&R went well. I don't know what a ballast resistor is. If you can give me a little more to go on, that would be great. Thank you, Wade |
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wade
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Since the distributor has a EI, disconnect the negative wire from the coil. This will give you the best voltage reading to the coil just in case the EI is shunted to ground. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Wade,
Follow the positive wire on the coil back to a rectangular ceramic block. That's the ballast resistor. It's there to reduce the 12 volt nominal to about 9 volts. |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1738 |
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Depending on the EI it may not have a ballast resistor. Or the one I just took off was hooked up without one.
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Mallory also made point distributors. Mostly dual point models. But it is probably an EI version.
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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wadeonminnetonka
Newbie Joined: March-29-2015 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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It's points. I did not know that. There is power at the ignition switch. The points are really dirty, and I am cleaning them up. I think I will replace the ballast resistor while I am at it.
Any and all help welcome. Black wire on the coil - post goes to the resistor. Coil + connected to the distributor and the tachometer. Wade |
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wade
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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You sure it ran like that????? Coil - goes to tach and dist. Coil + goes to ballast res. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Try this. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10727 |
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Hi Wade
Mallory made plenty of points type marine distributors over the years. Your description of your coil connections is backwards. The coil (+) terminal should have the wire from the ballast resistor going to it. The coil(-) terminal should have the black wire from the distributor and the gray wire for the tach hooked to it. If it really is backwards it will still run, but the spark polarity to the plugs is backwards and the coil efficiency is less. You can temporarily jumper around the ballast resistor and with the key in RUN you should see voltage to the coil (+) terminal with the wiring hooked up right. You initially said you had no voltage to the coil (+) with the key in RUN. If it is backwards then you should have seen voltage at your (-) terminal on the coil and if the points were closed (or electronic module in the no fire position} when you checked you'd see zero volts on the (+) terminal, if the points happened to be open at that time (or electronic module in the fire position) you'd see roughly the same voltage as your input to the coil. So....wire the coil right and check voltages, Also you should see about 1.3 ohms on the resistor and get a drop of a few volts across it. Hope this makes sense to you, but if you wire it right and you have zero volts at the (+) terminal, check your ballast resistor and if there is infinity for resistance , then the resistor is your problem. At the resistor inlet you'll probably see around 11 volts with the key in RUN with the engine off due to voltage loss in the wiring run that goes to the key and then back to the resistor Like Pete said find out where you do and don't have voltage. Little edit here ..... I'm sure somebody won't believe the coil can work backwards, I just went out and verified it with a 1.5 ohm coil and it worked. A little voice told me to try a 3 ohm coil that I have floating around and it didn't work, I think because of the internal resistor setup and maybe there's a diode in there if I remember right but I really don't know KenO |
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wadeonminnetonka
Newbie Joined: March-29-2015 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Thanks you guys, I tore the distributor apart more and I lied, it's not points, It is electronic and there is a lot of corrosion. I am going to clena it up, connect it like you guys said and see if it runs.
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wade
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wadeonminnetonka
Newbie Joined: March-29-2015 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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You guys are super helpful and I really appreciate it.
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wade
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peter1234
Grand Poobah Joined: February-03-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2756 |
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just a thought away from ignition .. what you described could be water in the fuel system? unless i missed something
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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Your right Ken. Back in my aircooled VW days this was actually mentioned in the repair books since Bosch did not mark their coils + or - but rather 15 and 1. I also seem to remember somehow using a pencil,pulling a wire and making the spark jump through the point. If the spark was on the distributor side of the pencil the coil was reversed,it on the plug side,it was ok. Don't know if it worked but I remember hearing that. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10727 |
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Hi Gary
Funny you mention that, I've got a hardcover book from the early 70's that's like an encyclopedia on points ignition systems among other things and they talk about the pencil test to check coil polarity. I've never tried it either but your description of how to do it matches theirs. May have to give it a try |
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wadeonminnetonka
Newbie Joined: March-29-2015 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Yahoo,
It is running, and running strong. |
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wade
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wadeonminnetonka
Newbie Joined: March-29-2015 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Here is what happened.
It was an ignition problem. The coil was wired backwards, fixed that. I texted pictures, which I could not post here because I could not figure out how, to my local mechanic. He confirmed that the distributor is a Mallory points ignition that had been converted to electronic with a kit from Pertronix. There is a Pertronix sensor inside of the distributor. Two wires come out of the distributor. One red and one black. Black is supposed to go to the negative side of the coil and red to the nine volt side of the ballast resistor. The ballast resistor was hot wired to send 12 volts to the coil and the distributor. I left that alone. After I wired the coil properly instead of backwards, I fired it up and the motor ran fine, and then would run for 30 seconds or so and then blow a fuse. Rewired the ballast resistor, so I had 12 volts on one side and the hot coil wire, the wire to the pertronix sensor and the red wire to the carb on the low voltage side. I get nin volts when it is on battery and a little more than ten when the boat is running. Now it runs great and does not blow fuses. By the way, we bought the boat in May of 2015, and put a hundred hours on it last summer with the coil wired backwards. Thanks to everyone for all of the help. Wade |
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wade
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Wade,
Good to hear it's running. We still would love to see pictures. Use the "post reply" and not the quick you find at the bottom of each thread. When you open the post reply, click on the icon of the tree with the up arrow. A browse box will come up allowing you to select anything off your computer. Good luck with the Pertronix conversion. There are some that haven't had any luck with them lasting very long. In fact, some even carry a spare module with them. |
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wadeonminnetonka
Newbie Joined: March-29-2015 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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I will send pictures out later today.
Now we have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. It turns out that the reason we had no spark was because the fuse over the ignition switch was blown. It did not occur to me that the boat would turn over with a blown fuse. Instead of checking fuses, I reached out to the forum. I hate it when I am that guy. So we got a nice 45 minute ski run last night, and ten minutes this morning and blew another fuse. The good news is that we fixed a lot of problems with your help, the bad news is that the underlying problem is still there. Thanks, Wade |
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wade
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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You might have a wire with worn-thru insulation somewhere, shorts intermittently. Long shot but I have seen stuff like this.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10727 |
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And a lot of them people with points, seem to carry around a spare set of points, and a condenser and even a dainty little multipurpose nail file too. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I've never needed to!! But, who knows now that the good old Echlin ignition components are coming from China!! Maybe my time will come! BTW, a quick pull through to clean up the contacts with a file sure is quicker than a module replacement. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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And then there are others who just carry DVDs,tic tacs, candy bars,petroleum jelly and seem to get along just fine
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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or boat with Eddie! john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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But Eddie won't come this far north John
A while back we were out at a British car show with the MG. On the way back 10 miles from home the coil gave out. Every major Lucas part has a date code,this piece of Lucas junk only lasted 49 years A call home and our son brought out the only extra coil I had,an extra one out of the Mustang. Only problem was it needed a resistor that I did not have. Car would run for about 3-4 miles before I had to readjust them because the extra current was melting the plastic rubbing block,seems they have quit using the phenolic blocks and substituted the plastic! At one point I had to put in another set because I could not adjust them any more,but we finally made it home. Since I had never done anything to the distributor I decided to send it out to a person well known in British car circles to have rebuilt,somehow he can even rebuild the vacuum advance units. The date code of this is within 2 months before the cars build so I'm guessing it might be the original.After seeing his work I'm going to check sometime and see if he can do the YL out of the Mustang,it would be nice to check and see if it's worn --- |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10727 |
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Nice looking distributor Gary
Curious, what's the adjusting knob for? Does it advance /retard the timing by moving the advance mechanism? KenO |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Gary, are you referencing the guy in Shakopee, MN?
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Yes Ken behind that adjustment knob is a spring clip that seats into the grooves you see on the knob,10 clicks equal 1 degree with a total of + or- of 12 degrees. You can see in the 2nd pic the direction you need to turn the knob for advance or retard. On the opposite side to the left of the 2 are the vernier markings to give you an idea of where your at,the longer line is at the center of the adjustment. The idea behind this is that you could easily change your timing on the run depending on the fuel you could buy.
And yes Chris that is Jeff's work. |
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