Stringer Templates |
Post Reply | Page <1234 7> |
Author | ||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I really don't feel this is needed nor a good idea. First, the wood for the seat support is plenty. The problem with the factory design is it got wet. With your epoxying the wood, this shouldn't happen. Second, if moisture did somehow get down there, I don't feel the aluminum would survive very long - white rust! Stainless wouldn't even like it. It needs to dry out occasionally to maintain the oxide barrier. The difference with the engine cradle is it's out in the open. Third, even though the bolt holes going through to the aluminum should be sealed with 5200, it's a potential leak. BTW, any fasteners going into the floor should be pilot drilled, CPES's, epoxied and then when driving the screw, 5200 sealed. If you want to beef up the floor at the fasteners, epoxy a extra layer of wood on the bottom like a 1x2. |
||
82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
OK, Thanks for the input on under floor strength.
Suplies purchased to work on removal aagain today. I am going to try to get 1 of the secondary stringers out today. Pictures to come later today...... |
||
82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Main stringers - Some rot started, Secondary stringers - more. Near the rear the secondaries that have the 3 sandwiched together appear to be the worst. Started cutting out secondary and had 1 heck of a time. Twords the front it was discolored, however the wood was very strong. Even cutting very close to the hull and prying up, it would not pull or pry out. Ended up getting a saws all and cutting entirely through to get it out. I am thinking my problems are not as bad as I originally thought. I will continue to remove the rest of the first secondary and prep for replacement. |
||
82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Sorry, here is front of the engine ares where the tops of the stringers were not glassed and rotting has started |
||
82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Port side----
I have since removed all the flooring and floatation forward of the engine, and from the drivers side to the rear. |
||
82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Ok, Need opinions here:
As I posted the secondary stringers were really bad near the doubled up area at the rear of the engine compartment. Probably 90 % of the stringer was in good shape and hard to get out (like new wood) Due to the fact of the failure mentioned, I am going to do the secondaries. How do people feel about cleaning up the main stringers where they were not encased, drill some holes perpindicular and inject CPES then brush the CEPS on the outside.... Then wrap in fibreglass lide the rebuild on the secondaries. Has anyone seen the secondaries be real bad and the mains be OK ?? Thanks for your opinions and ideas. Dennis |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Dennis, No!! No!! First the moisture is in the wood along with the fungus spores that cause rot. Without removing it, it will never dry out plus without a epoxy at the bottom of the stringers (remember it's not hydroscopic) moisture will continue to migrate through the hull into the wood. You need to get the wood out of there and start with new. The injection is a short term "band aid". Here's what will happen with epoxy injection. You will never get the wood completely saturated with the CPES and epoxy. The wood now that isn't epoxy saturated is sealed off next to the epoxy and will rot even faster! |
||
Okie Boarder
Gold Member Joined: August-31-2009 Location: OK Status: Offline Points: 779 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Dennis,
I'm doing my stringers one at a time. I started with the secondary on the port side. That was removed and the hull was ground clean. The new stringer is in place and has been filleted. As I mentioned, I used shims to hold it up off the hull. The reason for this is you don't want the wood to rest on the hull...you want a gap. I filled that gap with the thickened epoxy and that "glued" it to the hull. I've now removed the port side primary and I'm almost done grinding the hull for that one. I'm really only a couple steps ahead of you. I agree with Pete. Since you're already tearing up a lot of the boat, just clean it all out and put new in. Otherwise you're going to be doing this again soon. Keep up the good work, you're coming along. |
||
82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Andy and Pete, Thanks for the advice. I ordered my materials from US Composits today, should be placing first new one in Thursday.
Are you using Douglas Fir for the Main Stringer ?? How far did you shim up the secondary, How far apart with the shims ? Any pictures?, please post or send to me @ dhbwg@mchsi.com At least I will have something to do while I take 3 weeks vacation starting Friday. I will post some more pictures later tonight. Dennis |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Dennis,
I do know Andy is using Doug fir. I believe the shimming of his stringers is to level off the top surface to a finished height but he's using quite alot of filled epoxy! With careful scribing to to the hull shape, the amount of epoxy can be reduced. The important thing is to have the wood sit in a bed of epoxy taking up any minor gaps and sealing off the bottom side. A 1/16th to a 1/8" bed would be ideal. |
||
82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Andy,
Are you using the pump measuring for blending your epoxy ? You mentioned 60% glass boubles & 40% Cabosil.... What quantities as far as pumps( If you are using the pump system) and how much filler do you add per batch ? |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Dennis,
I highly recommend the mini hand pumps. You will need to get them with the proper ratio for the resin/hardener you are using. Then, there is no guess work or inaccurate measuring. One full pump from each gives you the proper ratio. If you are mixing large batches say for coating large areas, spread the resin out in a roller pan. If concentrated in a cup, the resin will "kick" prematurely. You'll end up with a very hot cup to the point where it will start smoking!! Use a plastic roller pan so the resin isn't concentrated in a small area building up the heat. Any resin still in it will break off when the pan is flexed the next day. |
||
82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Pete,
Yes I ordered the pumps for measuring. Thanks for the tips and help. Just wanting to get what I need beforehand. All the information here has been tremendous. Dennis |
||
Okie Boarder
Gold Member Joined: August-31-2009 Location: OK Status: Offline Points: 779 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Dennis,
Yes, I'm using Doug Fir for everything I possibly can. Anything I don't use Doug Fir for will be Marine Grade Plywood. I put about 3 sets of shims along the entire length, plus I used 1x2 across the top in a few spots to attach the stringer to the nearby stringer to hold it in place. Pete is right, I used them the level the top and leave the gap at the bottom. My gap was more than it should be. I'm still learning the methods for scribing and cutting properly. I got the pumps from US Composites. The thing I don't like about them compared to the MAS brand pumps is they are just a 1 ounce per pump set up, instead of being metered to the ratio you want. I'm using the medium hardener so it is 3 pumps of resin to 1 pump of hardener. I'm using cups right now because I'm mixing small batches. The cups I got from US Composites also, and they have the measuring marks on them, so it helps verify the mixture. As far as mixing in the filler, you just keep adding filler until the mixture is the thickness you want. Usually peanut butter or frosting consistency works well. Here's some pictures that might help... |
||
BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
You just need a cheap compass set to the gap on the low side and then transfer to the other side. That's with the stringer clamped in place. Let the point ride on the hull(keeping the same orientation of the compass) and the pencil will show the material that needs to go. Also on Pete's suggestion, I picked up a hand planer and this was a good move! You'll have less material to remove than I did so a belt sander may work better. Another tip is to cut your blank a little on the 'too big' side and work to where you need to be...and check the fit often! |
||
82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
1988 2001 SN Stringer update:
Starboard secondary removed. Rear Front I should have used previous advice and removed the engine & Tranny. I will do that today. Tired of climbing over and around it. Question: Is it important to remove all of the resin/fillet buildup from the sides of where I removed the stringer? Or can I just clean it up and set the new stringer in the bed of resin filler and glass back in ? Also, Between the stringers the factory sprayed or placed grey gelcoat (same as what is in the bilge) Does that need to be removed to the glass or can I just clean it and glass over it? I will also want to clean up the bilge and repaint with bilgecoat. |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
No as it gives you a good reference point for stringer placement but, see below.
The gray is decorative and should be ground down until you see some glass where ever you will be laying new glass. The gray isn't very strong. |
||
82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Sounds good.
Thanks. I will wire wheel or clean to fibreglass inbetween the old stringers and in the bilge area. |
||
abolton
Groupie Joined: September-07-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 81 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I too have my starboard secondary stringer removed! To cut the stringer out I used a 3" cut off wheel w/suction taped to the air hose. I cut the glass near the hull all the way around then the stringer just popped right out.
With the stringer out and 60" wide rolls of cloth in hand I found I didnt have room for a 12' long layout table. I cut and fit some scrap plywood over the stringers on the other side and it makes a great lay out table to put the old stringer on to use as a template. I use it to lay out the cloth, cut and wet it out. I hope to clean and grind and start making the replacement stringer tonight. |
||
ABE
|
||
Okie Boarder
Gold Member Joined: August-31-2009 Location: OK Status: Offline Points: 779 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Looks like you are coming along nicely. I've been grinding mine down completely until I'm to fresh glass and resin. Usually I can see the coremat material underneath. The only place I'm not doing that is in the bilge. In the bilge I'm making sure I grind away the bilgekote and the top layer of mat. Under that is woven roving so I am trying to leave as much of that behind as I can.
My grinding tools of choice are a 4" electric grinder along with a 24 grit resin sanding disk. I'd agree on getting the engine out of there. I'd also try removing or covering as much other stuff as you can. That fiberglass dust gets on everything and coats it. Some items it can be difficult to remove. I found that out earlier this year when I did the shaft log on mine. |
||
82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
OK guys I am kind of getting excited to get my fibreglass materials and CPES tomorrow or Thursday.
My question is when you started mixing your batch's of resin? I ordered the 3-1 pump system what size batch do you suggest starting to mix first time ? How much, filler of beads per batch? Do you guy's have pictures ? Is the 24 grit a special resin disk or just 24 grit sand paper ? Thanks |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Dennis,
Start with small batches say a cup until you get a feel for the usage. When the fillers are added, the batch has the tendency to really grow!! When empty, you can just make more and even use the same mixing cup. The 24 grit is a resin bonded disk. Same as what you would buy for metal. |
||
Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Pete, you may be further confusing him. I think Dennis is asking if there is a sanding disk to use "for" resin. So, the answer to his question I think is "just 24 grit sand paper". The sand grains are stuck to the paper by resin. You guys are talking about different resins - in the boat vs. in the sand paper. |
||
abolton
Groupie Joined: September-07-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 81 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What have you found to be good for grinding on the filit radius where the channel meets the hull? My 4-1/2" disc is not flexible enough to do it...
|
||
ABE
|
||
TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21135 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Pete, like this?
|
||
BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
For finer/finish prep work the layered sandpaper flapper disks are nice. The big boxes have them.
I just looked at an old one; made by norton and called a flap disk. |
||
Okie Boarder
Gold Member Joined: August-31-2009 Location: OK Status: Offline Points: 779 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I got those pint sized mixing containers from US Composites. They also sell them at Lowe's and I think Home Depot. When I mixed up the "glue" for bedding the stringers, I did 8 ounce batches and used just cabosil. When I mixed up the batches for fillets I did 4 ounce batches with the 60/40 mix of glass bubbles and cabosil. The filler isn't really a set amount, just keep adding it a little at a time until your mixture is the right thickness. You'll figoure out about how much after the first couple batches. The cabosil is really powdery and light and likes to cause a big mess. The glass bubbles are a little heavier and a little easier to deal with. The disk is a sanding disc that is 24 grit, like Hollywood explained. The sand is adhered to a thick paper disc with resin. Home Depot carries them in singles and Lowe's carries them in packs. I've been burning through about 10 per stringer so far. Here's a picture of one... |
||
82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Great, I was cutting out the stringer with the disk you are and was using some new type of sanding disk, don't remember the name ? I will take a picture of it. Cost like $8.00
I think the sandpaper will be a little more aggressive and give more control covering more area. I will give it a try. Thanks for the mix blends of the resin... gives me somewhere to start |
||
abolton
Groupie Joined: September-07-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 81 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
My question got lost in the shuffle...any solutions for grinding a 3/4" Radius at the old stringer channel? |
||
ABE
|
||
Post Reply | Page <1234 7> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |