Trailer Hub/Axle Guidance |
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hongguang
Newbie Joined: September-09-2016 Location: wez Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Posted: September-09-2016 at 3:35am |
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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Well after launching/receiving everyday this weekend, I'm pleased to say the lower height did not cause any issues. Unless we start to have issues with it bottoming out, I think we are going to leave it be. No reason to go through the expense unless it becomes a problem.
Pros: Can back entire trailer in to wet the bunks. More visibility while driving. Better clearance for storage. Easier to clean transom. Easier to load gear (not that this was really a problem). Cons: Less clearance for prop guard with incline changes. As far as the fenders are concerned, I think I'm gonna stick with the original dimensions and continue to use the spacers. I know for some it might look odd/tacky, but that will give me the option to move the perches at a later time if the need arises. |
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-Spiral
'89 Sport Nautique |
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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i think you are right...im just hoping i can get by until the end of the season so it can be switched over the winter. It scraped pretty badly getting out of our back drive. Figured it would scrape pulling into the front drive but it had about an inch to spare.
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-Spiral
'89 Sport Nautique |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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I think you'll regret not putting the axle under the leafs
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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HW, The fenders are pretty much shot. If you look at the first picture in this thread you can see that the flanges are about to fall off. So I could either reinforce them, or just get new fenders. My neighbor works for a semi-truck repair shop and said he would do the fabricating for me.
IF the boat/trailering ends up being fine with the bottom perches, then the new fenders will be made accordingly for the extra height. i had to add a 2 1/4" spacer to give me about 3/4" clearance from top of tire to bottom of fender. IF having the perches below do prove to be an issue, I will pull the axle and have someone move the perches to the top which will allow us to use the original fenders as templates. I didn't take any closeup pics of the fenders since they look like garbage now. |
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-Spiral
'89 Sport Nautique |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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So you're going to get new fenders instead of having the spring perches fixed? How much articulation do you have before the tire meets the fender support?
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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Just to round out this thread, the new axle, springs, and tire are back on and ready for the weekend.
I ended up getting a 6000# heavy duty Dexter Axle with custom V-bend, EZ lube, Free-Backing, 6 on 5.5, Fully assembled. I went with 2500# leaf springs (i figured 2k was pushing the limit with the tower and gear). Strange how much bigger the new axle is compared to the original. The downside, the axle was going to go from Dexter to Redneck to Ekquist Trailers to me. Well, it didn't make the weekly delivery truck from Redneck to Ekquist, so I embarked on a 5 hour road trip to pick it up myself. I'm glad they were willing to let me do that. Once I got home and proceeded with the install, I realized they put the spring perches on the bottom instead of the top. Well, as the discussion from above already points out, the trailer dropped ~4". Due to the drop, it also puts the axle itself back into the equation for fin clearance, essentially making it the same as if it was a straight axle. We will find out this weekend if it is a problem, we'll just have to load carefully a couple times. The dropped height ended up causing the prop guard hit in a couple spots when pulling out of the drive. It also forced us to temporarily modify the fenders until new ones can be made. On the plus side, the lower trailer means the tower doesn't graze the garage door when putting it away. As you can see from the photos, one of the fender supports is pretty bent, so I will work on straightening that once the boat is back in the water and I can heat it up safely. Other than that the process was pretty easy. Thanks for all the help figuring out what I needed and how to go about fixing it. Bravo to CCF once again! |
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-Spiral
'89 Sport Nautique |
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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Thanks Gary!
It was quite amusing, I had finished reading your post when a patient walked in who is in the tire business. I prompted the discussion by asking him to settle a debate as to should one balance trailer tires. With no help from me, he almost quoted what Dexter wrote verbatim. The only thing different he said, was that due to the press on wts being thrown off, if someone was insistent on having them balanced, he would use adhesive wts. He also went further to say that he feels that with the industry getting better and more precise, the wheels are being shipped closer to balance specs (the same with the tires). He generally only balances car tires, but will do it (and even mentioned how he would have to use a different setup for "lug centric" balancing) if it is requested. He does agree that not balancing them will decrease their life if the trailer is being hulled many continuous miles, but not by a noticeable difference. |
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-Spiral
'89 Sport Nautique |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I have 4 boat trailers,2 of them still have the original tires and wheels that came on them, none are balanced. Did some googling and found out why. If not done the correct way you just may be fooling yourself---
None of our tire and wheel assemblies come balanced from the factory. Although some customers do insist upon balancing their trailer tires most (98%) do not. Trailer tires have a tendency to "throw weights". Meaning the weights come off the wheels. This can happen for a number of reasons, but it is not uncommon for the weights to be thrown off when towing a trailer empty (the trailer bounces excessively b/c of the no load conditions) or when making very tight turns on tandem or tri axle trailers. Furthermore, galvanized trailer wheels are not designed to be balanced. When the steel wheel is dipped into the vat of molten galvanized and then pulled out, some of the liquid zinc always accumulates on one end. Which makes galvanized wheels incredibly difficult to balance. But the galvanized coating does provide one of the best corrosion resistance to harsh environments such as salt water. Most automotive centers are not equipped with the proper wheel balancing machine to correctly balance most trailer wheels. All of our trailer wheels are a lug centric design. Meaning, that the wheels are centered on the hub by the torque of the lug nuts. Most/many automotive wheels are a hub centric design. Many automotive centers use a computerized "cone" balancer which works great on hub centric wheels, but not on lug centric trailer wheels. In order to balance trailer wheels, an adapter must be used on the cone balancer to correctly balance trailer rims. Check with your automotive center to see if they keep the adapter on hand. original link explaination of hub centered vs lug centered wheels |
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MechGaT
Senior Member Joined: March-09-2015 Location: Chattanooga Status: Offline Points: 271 |
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Not balancing tires doesn't make sense. I am sure everyone has been in or heard someone say their vehicle bounces at one speed , but it is not as bad just faster or slower. You have just discovered the natural frequency. That will shake your trailer to pieces.
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'92 Sport Nautique
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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94 North into Michigan is now all under construction, perhaps you ran thru there just before they started repairing. In my experience Southern and Western Michigan roads are generally pretty decent. In the winter they use a sand with aggregate that really tears up the front of your vehicle thouigh, Illinois is all salt that is cancerous to your vehicles.
My trailer tires are round, I like them that way. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Online Points: 3614 |
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Michigan Roads are the worst roads I have encountered in the entire country.
I was amazed we got out of Michigan with no damage to the car or trailer. Some of your pot holes on the freeway could eat a small car. I towed through in May maybe before the frost heaves got fixed? From Chicago when entering Michigan the road conditions went off the charts terrible. I have to believe IL has the same weather challenges as Michigan why are the roads so much better. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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I've never not balanced any tire that goes down the highway
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Bruce,
The last set of tires I bought was for my utility trailer. Tires-r-us insisted balancing was needed and did balance them. Different philosophy east to Midwest? BTW, no extra charge since the balancing was built into the cost. |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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The couple times I have bought and mounted tires, the shops have insisted that they do not need to be balanced. One was a trailer shop and the other a tire shop. I just bought 2 radials at a tire shop and the guy insisted it was a waste of money. Seems like if you're going to tow at 75 mph, it's not a bad idea. |
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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We notice that stretch of road being awful even without the boat behind. I like the security of the traffic on 151 if there is a problem, but really like 26 from Janesville to FDL for the ride.
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-Spiral
'89 Sport Nautique |
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illiniball2000
Senior Member Joined: June-27-2014 Location: Elgin,IL Status: Offline Points: 386 |
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+1 on the 151 route north of Madison. On the way to green lake last month I couldn't wait to get off of that road.
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Beer is my friend
87 Dominique Had 67 Starflite |
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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took a quick peek at the wheels last night, and both rims had weights on them, so at some point they were balanced. That's not to say that they are still balanced though. There is a tire place on my route to work, so it won't be hard to just have them rebalance them.
Went ahead and ordered new springs with bolts and shackles. I ended up ditching the monospring and opted for the 5-leaf. I'm glad I did as the bushings were toast (probably what was causing the squeaking. We'll see how it rides with all the new parts. a couple more weeks to go. |
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-Spiral
'89 Sport Nautique |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Online Points: 3614 |
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"I can't, you must be like super human."
Haven't you ever gone down the road following a car or trailer with one wheel bouncing? I have no idea if this guys trailer had balanced tires or not I just responded to a comment that someone made about this trailer bouncing going down the road. In my younger life we went on a long haul with our trailer and un balanced tires, one of the fenders broke at the welds from the tire shaking it. I saw it moving on the trailer and pulled over. Pulled the formerly welded on fender off and put it in the back of the car. Welded it back on when we got home and never had another issue with it. I have balanced trailer tires ever since even though tire shops tell me it is not needed on Trailer tires. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I don't even see a picture of any tires! Did I miss a link to extra pictures? |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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I can't, you must be like super human. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Online Points: 3614 |
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Your trailer, tires and wheel bearings will thank you
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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well, i guess I never actually "verified" that they were balanced. I probably make an incorrect assumption that when new tires are put on, they are balanced at the same time. The tires on the trailer (prior to the incident) had less than 300 miles on them. I just replaced the blown tire so it will be ready for the new axle, I'll go home an check to see if they have any balancing wts on them.
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-Spiral
'89 Sport Nautique |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Online Points: 3614 |
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Bounce going down the road.
A lot of people do not balance trailer tires. I think this is a big mistake. For less than $30 the tires can be balanced and get rid of a lot of vibration on your trailer. I have seen some going down the road with the tire bouncing and you could see the tire was way out of balance. |
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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Earlier in the week i went ahead and ordered the replacement axle. 2 weeks out for straight, 3 weeks for the v bend. I opted for the v bend. Ended up getting it from Redneck Trailer but it was ordered through a local guy. So hopefully it will arrive just in time for labor day weekend. Fingers crossed!
Yesterday, I did load up the old axle and took it to the local Axle Surgeons franchise and the minute he saw it he said, "We can't repair that. It's a square and we only do round" then proceeded to say that it would be cheaper to just get a new axle as their minimum price to work on them is $750 (the complete, fully assembled, custom dropped came to $586). Thanks again for all the guidance. It certainly helped wrap my head around what it was I needed so I could make an informed purchase. I'll follow up with the rest of the install once it arrives. |
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-Spiral
'89 Sport Nautique |
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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Is the drop center or v bend crucial for fin clearance or will a straight axle suffice?
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-Spiral
'89 Sport Nautique |
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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That was what I was thinking. I didn't notice the "bounce" that he made it seem like. I will say though, there is a stretch of road (US-151) from Madison, WI to Fond du Lac, WI where they didn't do a good job smoothing the surface, so that hour of the drive is nauseating. If different springs or adding shocks took care of that, i would consider changing. But, now that I'm getting a grasp of the work, that might just be an addition later, we only make that drive with the boat 2 (maybe 3) times a year. |
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-Spiral
'89 Sport Nautique |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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tire weight rating and air pressure also have a decent amount to do with bouncing.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3337 |
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Ride height is your call on clearances, but don't see how position of the spring/axle/ ride height will change the bounce any.
Many trailers have drop axles, somewhat equivalent to you changing under/over, but your configuration may run skinny on upward travel available. Ordering a drop axle, if you are getting one, may be a solution, if its a problem at all. But fender clearance has to be considered as well as axle/frame. Micht be best to just stick with what the maker designed. If YOU think bouncing is a problem, there are clever shock kits that replace the backing plate then you mount the other end to the frame. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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