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Ford 351 with PCM manifold heating up while idling

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    Posted: April-18-2011 at 4:01pm
UPDATE!
Shaft alignment:
Ok fellas, I got the shaft aligned to .001 tolerence. I used a half moon piece of shaft packing to align the shaft in shaft log - worked great.

Gauges:
Still having troubles with my gauges, temp sending unit, oil pressure and gas tank. I will get back to you on these. I have not been able to get a meter on the situation yet - next on the list after timing.

TIMING:
OK, I bought a aftermarket timing cover. I am now missing a timing pointer :( . I need help to determine what pointer i need (10 or 11 oclock) and maybe where to get one. Or maybe make my own and set the piston to TDC and use some timing tape on dampener to get a base reading - any suggestions. I am going to post some pics of my timing cover to see where it should mount. There is a little hole but not threaded - maybe a sheet metal screw ??? to hold .
I would love to see a picture of what it should look like - anyone got one. My motor is a 351W reverse rotation.

https://www.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8a6b698e596773b46f99

LINKAGE for BW 1:1:
First the tranny and gears all work fine.
How do I begin to set the linkage correctly- should i set it a particular gear first then adjust???. I can either get it to go in forward and neutral, but not reverse or the opposite. Can't seem to get it to go in all 3 gears from the shifter (original shifter 1977) Seems
Look forward to everyones help.
Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 82Fineline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2011 at 12:47am
^What temps would you be expecting to see with the IR gun? Mine reads 150* on the gauge once warmed up, but if I use the gun on the intake and block it will read anywhere from 175 - 205. Im assuming this is normal as the sending unit is reading the water temp which is cooler than the actual engine?

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2011 at 10:25am
Originally posted by ZenZeus ZenZeus wrote:

Any other tests I can do?

Have you checked the actual temperature as recommended? IR temp gun? Also, some of the better digital volt ohm meters have a plug in thermocouple. You tape it close to the gauge sender.

Bench test the gauge as mentioned?

Check you voltage you get to the gauges.

With the oil pressure gauge, check the ohms at sender same as recommended for the temp sender. Sender wire diconnected and with engine off and running at several different RPM's.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZenZeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2011 at 5:47am
Update on temp sending unit:
Called Teleflex, tech told me I need the sending unit TS26631. I was able to get one through west marine.

Teleflex told me that the TS26631 has OHM range 240 cold / 33 hot.

Bought one for $14.
Put it in and getting same results. Up to 240.

I am having trouble with my oil temp gauge (not moving under normal operation, but when grounded to block pegs to right)

Any other tests I can do?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2011 at 9:48am
Rig up some cheap hose/duct like dryer venting to each exhaust and collect the water in seperate buckets. Run it and see how much difference you get in each. Have you contacted the company who made the FWC system to make sure it's plumbed correctly?

Have you ID'd the Ohm range the gauge needs? To check the sender, remove the wire, get a Ohm reading to the block and check that to the known temp. Do it at several temps. The Ohm to temp range is pretty linear.

To check the gauge, you can remove it from the boat and hook it up on the bench with known values of resistors instead of the sender.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2011 at 4:38am
Some vapor is normal if the engine sat for a long period.
Also the new paint will smoke a smell over a few thermal cycles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2011 at 11:25pm
Looks like a gauge problem.

edit: not in that I think the actual gauge is broken but rather the engine is running at normal temp and the reading is off.
"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger

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Gary S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2011 at 11:21pm
I think you are getting the wrong senders.On a cold engine when you first go to start your already getting a temp reading?Might have to pull the gauge and see if it has any model numbers on the side or back of it and go from there. It's a Teleflex I assume? That number I posted is for VDO but those guy's were sharp maybe they could help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZenZeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2011 at 11:02pm
Gary,
Never saw the boat run.
It was partially sunk when i bought it.
Yes, new senders, 1 from ski dim , 1 from quivra marine.
Pics have code of sender. Looks to be correct one.
Not sure if gauge is acurrate after 35 years ???
I did take wire off and turn key and zero was the outcome. touched it to ground and pegged it to hot.
Changed sending unit and same thing.
Hose goes from check valve to carb.

thank you for asking the question. keep them coming.
Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2011 at 10:46pm
Looks like you have a gauge problem.Did you run the boat before you rebuilt it? Or did this happen after the rebuild? Did you ever change senders? Have you disconnected the sender and then turned on the key? Did the gauge stay at zero? Where does the hose that comes from the pcv valve on the right valve cover go to? Sorry for all the questions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZenZeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2011 at 8:51pm
Let it run for about 6-7 minutes.
Smoke is coming from breather cap.
I know I am suppose to have some kind of return hose from flame arrester to breather cap??? but my flame arrester does not have nipple for hose.
These are automotive valve covers and breather.

Could it also be the heating up of the gasket silcone used to but on
V covers? It has been 3 years since I put them on and started motor?


Took temps reading after 7 min.

Both heads 122 degrees
Both valve covers 84.
both risers 70
Driver side manilfold 195-200 at base of triangle.
Other manifold 135.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZenZeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2011 at 8:19pm
Opps broken link.

FOR PICS...
https://www.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8a6b658c596672b2a1a9

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ZenZeus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZenZeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2011 at 8:11pm
Lets try this again:

GO HERE TO SEE VIDEO.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOEvmmjiwp0

Go HERE TO SEE PICTURES:

https://www.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8a6b658c596670b9a766#
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZenZeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2011 at 8:06pm
the video is 3-4 min long. will take a few min to load.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZenZeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2011 at 8:05pm
OK fellas,
I got pics and videos for you.
I look forward to hearing back you.

Please take a minute to watch.
Would appreciate some feedback when can. Thank you.

https://www.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8a6b658c596670b9a766

(copy and past in browser)


I think the light smoke at end of video is from wrong breather or just oils and such from years of rebuilding - not sure.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2011 at 3:16pm
HF is having a huge sidewalk sale today. Might have to go check it out. Curious to see how the temp gun works. Let us know what you find.
"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZenZeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2011 at 2:54pm
got one at harbor freight CEN - Tech.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
Will get to some testing today.
Thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2011 at 11:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2011 at 11:15pm
Im not sure if they are there on the weekends,but here is the VDO tech support line 1-800-265-1818
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2011 at 10:00pm
Originally posted by ZenZeus ZenZeus wrote:

ok,
Then maybe the original hot wire is compromised somewhere between gauge and unit ??

No. If "comprimised", you ether wouldn't get any reading on the gauge (you do) or if the wire/connections/terminals corroded causing high resistance, then the gauge would read low.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2011 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by Keeganino Keeganino wrote:

I think it would run hot after a WOT run and seemed to stay hot longer than usual.

Is it safe to presume that you returned the boat to idle after running at WOT? This is probably the most stringent test for the cooling system (very hard operation followed by minimal cooling ability at low RPM) so any weaknesses will reveal themselves. If getting back up on plane brought the temp back down, then you would likely have a minor air leak somewhere.


Its gonna be 65 here all weekend but I have too many things apart to go out for a test run. This sounds about right. I bet the original hose is cracked somewhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZenZeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2011 at 6:42pm
ok,
Then maybe the original hot wire is compromised somewhere between gauge and unit ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2011 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by ZenZeus ZenZeus wrote:

Ok, cleaned the threads on both unit and intake.
Restarted with cap on and off of FWC and still
Same Problem

could my gauge not be grounded good.

Need some suggestions.

The engine block is the ground to the gauge. You should get zero ohms between the sender body and the block. The "hot" side to the circuit goes to the gauge itself. The ground on the gauge is only for the lighting. Sender resistance varies along with the temp it picks up and basically varies the voltage to the gauge. The temp gauge is really a volt meter.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2011 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by Keeganino Keeganino wrote:

I think it would run hot after a WOT run and seemed to stay hot longer than usual.

Is it safe to presume that you returned the boat to idle after running at WOT? This is probably the most stringent test for the cooling system (very hard operation followed by minimal cooling ability at low RPM) so any weaknesses will reveal themselves. If getting back up on plane brought the temp back down, then you would likely have a minor air leak somewhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2011 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by ZenZeus ZenZeus wrote:

I changed temp unit and same problem - temp is starting at 200 and going over 240.

If youre seeing 200 degrees cold, then clearly you still have a mismatched gauge/sender.

Where did you get the replacement?

If you can hold your hand on the riser comfortably when the engine is supposedly "hot" then clearly you are not really overheating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZenZeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2011 at 5:36pm
Ok, cleaned the threads on both unit and intake.
Restarted with cap on and off of FWC and still
Same Problem

could my gauge not be grounded good.

Will be at all day tomorrow. got to get some work done today.

Need some suggestions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZenZeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2011 at 5:19pm
Wakeslayer thank you

I do have some pipe tread compound with teflon on unit threads ....I never knew that.

I will clean and try and get back to you guys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2011 at 5:17pm
Will teflon kill your oil pressure sender too. Have not been able to get that to work and know it is teflon taped too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2011 at 5:15pm
I think the easiest way is with a laser temp gun as Mike suggested. Harbor Freight has one on sale right now.

Good to know about the teflon tape. My sender is wrapped in teflon for sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZenZeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2011 at 5:10pm
just opened cap to FWC and started motor.
for a brief second the temp did start out about 160, but climbed to over 240 within 2 minutes.

Going to check ground on gauge.

I know I need to check the temp gauge reading against actual temp of motor.
any suggestions how to do that ?
And where should i test ? (take sending unit out after heat up and test water under intake ???)

fellas ?
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