Weak starter?

KENO wrote: Being one of those types that likes to have spare parts on hand, I'd buy another starter and put it in. Then you'll know if there's a difference and you'll have a spare starter too for the day when you need it.. A little voice in my head says you have a weak starter mostly because a GT-40 will turn over just as fast as any other 351 Like Gary said ARCO 70200 or something that cross references to it It's a clockwise rotating starter which is what you need for your normal rotation Ford.

I figured you'd get there eventually.

Maybe you can send your old starter to Pete for a fluff and buff

I wouldn't get rid of it, keep it around as a spare that you know will at least work or tear into it and do your own fluff and buff

This whole rotation thing can be kinda confusing.

You have a standard rotation engine so it needs a clockwise rotating starter if you decide to get one, which the Arco 70200 is.

Then you have a 1.23 to 1 pcm transmission which reverses the direction of rotation inside the transmission.

That means your LH (normal rotation) engine is spinning a RH (reverse rotation) prop

And that means your Acme 422 RH prop is correct for your boat and will make your boat go forward when you want it to

I think you understand that already, just thought I'd say it again

JoeinNY wrote: Take it apart clean it up and put it back together -- if you find big chunks of magnets or something melted then move on and get a replacement. I don't know if I am too cheap to buy a replacement or just too lazy to order one - but its been a long time since I couldn't get one back in the game with a bit of emery paper, contact cleaner, and compressed air. .

Joe,
I'm sure glad someone else thinks the same as I do with starters. I've been chastised too many times here even suggesting opening up a starter!! BTW, I'm sure you know that new brushes are available and not expensive but typically not needed due to the low run hours on a starter.

Duane in Indy wrote: TRBenj wrote: Its no wonder it's so hard to find someone who rebuilds starters around here, when you can get rebuilt units on eBay I wonder if the internals are of decent quality... but with a 1yr warranty I can't imagine they're that bad. Tim, read the bottom line. Makes it worth while to put one on the shelf.   That even sweetens the deal more Specifications: Unit Type     Starter Voltage     12 Rotation     CCW Teeth     9 Starter Type     DD Brief     MARINE APPLICATIONS WITH FORD ENGINES B+ STUD Item Condition       New

Don't want Joe to buy one of these for his GT40 though 'cause it'll turn the engine over backwards.

Remember ARCO 70200 or something that cross references to it for the small high torque starter that rotates the right way.

Dave if your going to the Cary one will you check and see if they have any Spitfire spark plugs and some Slick 50? I can't wait on a JC Whitney order.

KENO wrote: Being one of those types that likes to have spare parts on hand, I'd buy another starter and put it in. Then you'll know if there's a difference and you'll have a spare starter too for the day when you need it..

Being a kindred spirit, this is exactly what my inner voice was telling me to do...
The wife was hoping I was deaf to the inner voice   

Its no wonder it's so hard to find someone who rebuilds starters around here, when you can get rebuilt units on eBay for $90.. I wonder if the internals are of decent quality... but with a 1yr warranty I can't imagine they're that bad.

KENO wrote: 8122pbrainard wrote: ! You know like I've said a few times, a good commutator and bushing cleanup is all it would probably have needed. I'm sure Ken would have tinkered! What's a commutator?

Ken,
For the benefit of others who may not understand your "tongue in cheek" :

"A commutator is a moving part of a rotary electrical switch in certain types of electric motors and electrical generators that periodically reverses the current direction between the rotor and the external circuit. It consists of a cylinder composed of multiple metal contact segments on the rotating armature of the machine."

davidg wrote:    I even took the starter to AutoZone, and they confirmed it was "good"....just because the drive gear engaged when hit with juice.

David,
Now you know how good of a job they do with their "testing". I am surprised they didn't tell you it was bad and then tried to sell you a new or rebuilt one. That however is probably good since chances are high that Autozone would have sold you the wrong rotation!!

Gary S wrote: I flooded out my starter last year with saltwater and just didn't feel like fooling around with it. Not being a weightlifter or 30 I bought the smaller gear reduction starter like you have.

Gary,
With myself getting up there in age like yourself and dealing with 80 lb. bags of concrete and 1/3 sq. bundles of shingles wearing the orange apron, I certainly understand the weight issue. However, you being one of CCfans best tinkerers, I'm surprised you didn't mess with the starter!! You know like I've said a few times, a good commutator and bushing cleanup is all it would probably have needed. I'm sure Ken would have tinkered!

one could disable the ignition and give it an extended crank.
Then quickly find the warmest component in the loop, from lugs, cables, connectors, solenoid, starter, battery post, not just POS but GND also.

The warmest component, is then the most suspect component.

UPDATE:

I've done the test as Ken has described and the engine does in fact crank at the same speed as before. So apparently the cables and connections are just fine, as I had suspected. This does however bring up a more pointed inference of the original question   that I had posed - Is the engine cranking more slowly than is normal for a GT40, or is the starter just weak?     I suppose this is ultimately a subjective question relative to who is listening to the cranking speed and what they consider to be "slow".    

However, most of us at some point in our lives has had a very weak battery in their cars or boats to the point that the engine will just barely turn over. Continued cranking does nothing but drain the battery quickly to the point that it won't turn at all within a very few revolutions.   THIS is the sense I get when cranking the boat.   The difference is that when doing Ken's test, the cranking speed increased slightly after a revolution or two and stayed at that speed for a sustained amount of time. But again, just a small increase in speed.   So, back to the dilemma: is this just the normal cranking speed of every GT40 out there, is it a weak starter, or is it just the normal speed of this particular starter?   Who's to say, I guess.   Suffice to say that at this point I now know it is not the wiring or the batteries and since she does start, first crank every time ....

Thanks for everyone's input !!

Duane in Indy wrote: Good info Ken.   I might add that make sure you are in neutral because you have also bypassed the safety switch.

Good thought there Duane

You can do a lot with a GOOD heavy gauge set of jumper cables too, like bypass all of the wiring to the starter

Since you have a 95, you should have the newer small starter with a starter mounted solenoid and also the remote solenoid/relay mounted to the back of the engine.

Hook one cable from battery negative to the engine for a good ground and hook the other from the big terminal on the starter solenoid to battery positive.

Then a short small jumper from the same big terminal touched to the starter mounted solenoid connection will let the engine crank while you're touching the wire. This could be a 12 gauge wire with an alligator clip on one or both ends about a foot or 18 inches long to give you a little extra to work with. The 2 connections are only a couple of inches apart on the starter. solenoid. See the picture, the jumper goes from the big nut on top to the spade connection in the picture. You might have the spade terminal or just a nut. Just a momentary touch to start the engine. No need to disconnect any of the normally installed wiring as long as you can make electrical contact with the spade terminal or the mounting nut for it.



If the key is OFF it will only crank

If the key is in RUN it will start and run even after you remove the small jumper and you then turn it off with the key.

This bypasses all of the wiring to the starter including the heavy gauge cable from the battery to the remote solenoid, the remote solenoid to the starter, and the remote solenoid itself.

If it cranks faster then you know you have a problem in one of those bypassed areas.

If it's no better, then your starter or battery or in your case batteries, would be suspect if it cranks slower than you think it should.

Notice that I emphasized GOOD heavy gauge battery cables and your starter should look like the one in the picture. If it's the older starter you can do the same test but a little differently.

This is harder to try and explain than it is to actually do it   

Ken's test could work two fold as in after a long crank I would bet that the suspect cable/wire/connection will be warmer than the other.
Of course a meter would be your best bet.