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2000 SN Stiff steering

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Waternut View Drop Down
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    Posted: June-03-2015 at 6:14pm
Sorry didn't get the chance to change it yet and I head out of town for the next 2 weekends. Hopefully after that I'll be able to work on it.
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AAM196 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AAM196 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2015 at 6:12pm
So when you used the proper packing, greased the correct area, and properly set your rudder trim tab... is she steering like a dream now?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waternut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2015 at 3:02pm
Ok thanks. We may be able to get the new packing in this weekend. I have a big roll of the goretex stuff in both sizes so it shouldn't be a problem.

May add the extra zerk fitting at the base but we'll see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AAM196 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2015 at 2:56pm
If you have the same port I have in my 1999SN... go 3/16" (three wraps). Go with the goretex it is like $6 for a foot and I think that is all you need.

Then set that rudder to about 1/16 or 1/8th at most and you will be set!!!

or..



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2015 at 12:59pm
If there is less than 1/4 clearance all around, I would suspect you need 3/16" packing. It will squish. If you put 3/16" packing on a port meant for 1/4", it will leak FAST and will be very obvious. If you install 1/4" where 3/16" belongs, you will get stiff steering. Sounds familiar...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2015 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by Waternut Waternut wrote:

So even though there is almost 1/2" of clearance, you just squash 3/16" packing?
worth a shot. $15, worst case it'll leak a lot, pull boat out and put 1/4" back in there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waternut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2015 at 12:31pm
So even though there is almost 1/2" of clearance, you just squash 3/16" packing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AAM196 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2015 at 12:25pm
I am convinced your issue is at the rudder and port... also use 3/16 packing... that is the correct size for your rudder!

See photo of rudder port and put zerk there!



The stock trim tab on your rudder will load steering wonderfully once you sort your rudder issue.

Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waternut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-27-2015 at 8:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-27-2015 at 2:11am
How about a picture of it,I wonder if it's a replacement or the original?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waternut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-27-2015 at 12:26am
I tried spraying lube into the rack last year and didn't notice a difference but with fresh grease on the rudder it may help. I may give it a shot soon.

Just for the record, I would absolutely love it if the rudder pulled in one direction. This boat sees most of it's life in a slalom course and it's so much easier to drive when the boat pulls one way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 10:55pm
I changed out my 95's last spring when I disconnected the cable the wheel seemed to turn ok. I had to change the helm unit because of the new rack side. Without the wheel on when turned by hand I was surprised that it was not smooth and seemed to bind. The lube in it and in the cable had dried out. I sprayed some lube into the helm unit and it was much better. Might be worth a try,but that alone won't help if it's pulling too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waternut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:



Yes, as Kevin asked, are you sure it's the rudder and port?


No but what else can it be if the steering wheel is effortless when the tiller arm is disconnected from the rudder?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waternut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 9:08pm
Well it's only 0.002-0.003 per side and the rudder moves super smooth until the packing nut is tightened down. Not exactly sure how to check rudder straightness other than a straight edge and look for light but that's a pretty small gap that you'd only be able to see at the perfect angle. Even then, there's no real way to accurately measure it like you can with a driveshaft and a dial indicator.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by Waternut Waternut wrote:

Considering the close tolerance between the 2 parts, I would think it's pretty straight.

John,
.004 to .006 isn't close.

Yes, as Kevin asked, are you sure it's the rudder and port?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waternut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Sure it's not a helm problem?


The wheel is superlight when the cable isn't connected to the rudder. It doesn't feel like it would freewheel if you give it a flick but like there is nothing there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 8:19pm
Sure it's not a helm problem?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waternut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 8:07pm
Maybe we'll add another zerk fitting at the bottom if the top one won't push grease down far enough next time the steering gets a little stiff.

I didn't think to check for straightness but the rudder slid in smoothly until it hit the packing and then just a slight nudge more and it was in. Considering the close tolerance between the 2 parts, I would think it's pretty straight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by Waternut Waternut wrote:

So I pulled the rudder and shaft yesterday to measure the two. The rudder measures between 1.244" - 1.246" on the entire length and the shaft measures 1.250 at the top and bottom.

Sounds good with the OD's and ID's but what about straightness of the rudder shaft? Does it get any tighter the farther into the port you go?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AAM196 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 6:21pm
well... my 99 doesn't have a zerk either but the 83 MC has one right on the bronze about an inch up from the bottom plate... that is where I'd put one.

I bet that helps your steering

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waternut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 5:51pm
1:1 tranny is in my boat...the 2000 SN (friends boat) uses something else (1:1.23 I believe) and therefore the prop is a completely different. Sorry for the confusion.

From my experience, the zerk fitting is usually in the base because there is an o-ring below the zerk fitting and therefore you're lubing the bearings in the rudder port. Are these rudders meant to make contact with the rudder in the entire bore or just at the packing? I would think if full rudder contact was meant, surely there would be some substantial galling or wear on the rudder or the rudder port. Right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sleepyone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 5:33pm
Im with Orlando 76 and Hollywood. The zerk fitting should be on the Bronze base not the nut. the Gease is going on top of the packing not underneath into the shaft. Just my thought!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 5:15pm
no
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 5:14pm
1:1 in a 2000?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AAM196 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 5:03pm
Should the zerk be ON the packing nut???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waternut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 4:49pm
I don't know the specs on that stainless prop. I'll see if we can borrow a friends prop soon. My boat has a 1:1 transmission or I'd try my CNC prop.

We've tried about every grease imaginable and yes the stiffness returns in a matter of weeks. The best grease I've ever used was some stuff I have in a small (and very expensive) tub and that lasted a month or two. I've never seen this stuff in a tube though. The grease fitting in the above picture did nothing because we couldn't get grease in it when everything was tightened down.

I added an additional grease fitting near the top, pulled the spring ball out of the lower one, and allowed tiny gaps in the packing to let grease pass through from the top to the bottom. Time will tell if that helps but the goal was to try and get some grease in there from time to time without having to drop the rudder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AAM196 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 4:32pm
So you say after repacking the rudder it was good for a while but stiffness returns??? Dumb question, but are you using marine grease and does regreasing at the zerk provide any relief?

As for the rudder trim tab, take Joel's advise and set to neutral... mine is also only set to about 1/8 or 1/16 off center and works well.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by Waternut Waternut wrote:

Right now it's pushed as far to the drivers side as it'll go.



Well, at least set it neutral for the purposes of getting 1 more variable out of play. Putting it all the way one way or another should impart a dramatic difference in rudder load.

As for the prop, perhaps borrow somebody else's just to try it out. Do you know what the diameter, pitch, and cup on the prop is? Stainless props were cool in the 90's but these days it's all CNC props or nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waternut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 3:48pm
There is no rudder grinding. The trim tab position makes little to no difference on rudder torque on this boat. We've gone both ways and really don't notice anything. Right now it's pushed as far to the drivers side as it'll go.

Could the prop have anything to do with all this? There is a stainless 4 blade prop on this boat and it's probably 3-4 inches from the rudder. My boat barely has 1/4" between the prop and the rudder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2015 at 3:33pm
Let's have a pic of the trim tab on the rudder. I have mine probably 1/16" off from dead center and that provides plenty of rudder load. If the tab is tweaked one way or another in any major way, or the rudder has been ground, it would change steering feel significantly.
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