2000 SN Stiff steering
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35878
Printed Date: May-18-2024 at 2:17am
Topic: 2000 SN Stiff steering
Posted By: Waternut
Subject: 2000 SN Stiff steering
Date Posted: April-26-2015 at 10:04pm
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So we've changed the steering cable twice in about 5ish years and it didn't make any noticeable difference in steering stiffness. The steering is really easy when stationary but under power, it takes a lot of effort. We inspected the rudder packing before replacing it to see what size we needed. When everything was reinstalled, we added some grease to the packing and the rudder shaft. This made a huge difference and the boat was a dream to drive! Figuring the packing was done for, we replaced the packing and reassembled everything with grease with fantastic results. After a couple weeks, it seems like the grease wears off and the stiffness goes back to crap. Any idea what's causing this? Is there supposed to be a seal or anything at the bottom of the rudder? |
Replies:
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-13-2015 at 12:36pm
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Bump... ------------- |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: May-13-2015 at 12:49pm
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How much slop is there between the rudder port and the shaft? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-13-2015 at 12:55pm
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There is no slop when it's installed. I could try to pull the rudder and measure both the rudder shaft and the rudder port. ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: May-13-2015 at 12:59pm
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Usually excessive rudder shaft to port clearance makes for hard steering under load because it binds the shaft in the port barrel. ------------- |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: May-13-2015 at 1:01pm
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Installed with the packing reasonably tight it isn't going to move, however if there is a lot of clearance between the two it can point load the top and bottom of the port underway and not turn as easily. I have seen trying to keep the bends in the cable as sweeping as possible help a bit as well. I haven't seen an oil seal installed on one but it could be done... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-13-2015 at 1:05pm
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The point loading causing issues under heavy rudder loading is certainly what it seems like. So realistically the only fix is to either continue greasing the rudder shaft and packing regularly...or...replace both the shaft and rudder port because our current one is likely too worn? ------------- |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-24-2015 at 7:22pm
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So I pulled the rudder and shaft yesterday to measure the two. The rudder measures between 1.244" - 1.246" on the entire length and the shaft measures 1.250 at the top and bottom. The inside of the rudder packing nuts measures 1.730-1.733. Based on these measurements, I can't see how these parts are worn. There has to be something else wrong with this rudder that make it drag. We've tried 2 and 3 rings of 1/4" packing and the steering cable has been replaced without much change. The only thing that makes any difference is grease on the packing but even that creates more drag than any other boat I've driven. Maybe the stack up of all the parts is wrong or there is a piece missing or adjusted poorly. Below is the installed rudder. Is this correct? How tight should everything be?  ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-24-2015 at 8:02pm
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Is there any up and down movement? I would think there would be when you had 2 rings of packing vs three. When you tighten the bolt from the top it's not pulling the arm down and binding it to the packing nut is it ? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-24-2015 at 9:15pm
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3 rings didn't allow the tiller arm to sit flush with the top of the rudder. The only way to make it flush was to overtighten the packing nut which made the rudder extremely difficult to move even while stationary. 2 rings allowed the packing nut to sit lower but yes there is a little bit of up/down movement in the rudder now. About 1/8". ------------- |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: May-25-2015 at 9:44am
What size packing are you using? |
Waternut wrote:Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-25-2015 at 9:45am
1/4" ------------- |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 2:07pm
| Seen your post on BOS about the same issue. I noticed here you didn't add the fact that the boat steers hard to the right. Do you think the 1/4" packing is too big? |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 2:57pm
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Well it turns slightly harder to the right but after installing grease on the packing, it isn't hard anymore. Left is a little more automatic is all. I'm not positive that 1/4" is the right size but the difference between the inside of the packing nut and the rudder shaft is 0.480" so a layer of 1/4" packing on each side would seem reasonable. ------------- |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 3:33pm
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Let's have a pic of the trim tab on the rudder. I have mine probably 1/16" off from dead center and that provides plenty of rudder load. If the tab is tweaked one way or another in any major way, or the rudder has been ground, it would change steering feel significantly. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 3:48pm
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There is no rudder grinding. The trim tab position makes little to no difference on rudder torque on this boat. We've gone both ways and really don't notice anything. Right now it's pushed as far to the drivers side as it'll go. Could the prop have anything to do with all this? There is a stainless 4 blade prop on this boat and it's probably 3-4 inches from the rudder. My boat barely has 1/4" between the prop and the rudder. ------------- |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 3:57pm
Well, at least set it neutral for the purposes of getting 1 more variable out of play. Putting it all the way one way or another should impart a dramatic difference in rudder load. As for the prop, perhaps borrow somebody else's just to try it out. Do you know what the diameter, pitch, and cup on the prop is? Stainless props were cool in the 90's but these days it's all CNC props or nothing. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: AAM196
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 4:32pm
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So you say after repacking the rudder it was good for a while but stiffness returns??? Dumb question, but are you using marine grease and does regreasing at the zerk provide any relief? As for the rudder trim tab, take Joel's advise and set to neutral... mine is also only set to about 1/8 or 1/16 off center and works well. |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 4:49pm
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I don't know the specs on that stainless prop. I'll see if we can borrow a friends prop soon. My boat has a 1:1 transmission or I'd try my CNC prop. We've tried about every grease imaginable and yes the stiffness returns in a matter of weeks. The best grease I've ever used was some stuff I have in a small (and very expensive) tub and that lasted a month or two. I've never seen this stuff in a tube though. The grease fitting in the above picture did nothing because we couldn't get grease in it when everything was tightened down. I added an additional grease fitting near the top, pulled the spring ball out of the lower one, and allowed tiny gaps in the packing to let grease pass through from the top to the bottom. Time will tell if that helps but the goal was to try and get some grease in there from time to time without having to drop the rudder. ------------- |
Posted By: AAM196
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 5:03pm
| Should the zerk be ON the packing nut??? |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 5:14pm
| 1:1 in a 2000? |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 5:15pm
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no ------------- |
Posted By: Sleepyone
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 5:33pm
| Im with Orlando 76 and Hollywood. The zerk fitting should be on the Bronze base not the nut. the Gease is going on top of the packing not underneath into the shaft. Just my thought! |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 5:51pm
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1:1 tranny is in my boat...the 2000 SN (friends boat) uses something else (1:1.23 I believe) and therefore the prop is a completely different. Sorry for the confusion. From my experience, the zerk fitting is usually in the base because there is an o-ring below the zerk fitting and therefore you're lubing the bearings in the rudder port. Are these rudders meant to make contact with the rudder in the entire bore or just at the packing? I would think if full rudder contact was meant, surely there would be some substantial galling or wear on the rudder or the rudder port. Right? ------------- |
Posted By: AAM196
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 6:21pm
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well... my 99 doesn't have a zerk either but the 83 MC has one right on the bronze about an inch up from the bottom plate... that is where I'd put one. I bet that helps your steering 
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 6:23pm
Sounds good with the OD's and ID's but what about straightness of the rudder shaft? Does it get any tighter the farther into the port you go? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 8:07pm
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Maybe we'll add another zerk fitting at the bottom if the top one won't push grease down far enough next time the steering gets a little stiff. I didn't think to check for straightness but the rudder slid in smoothly until it hit the packing and then just a slight nudge more and it was in. Considering the close tolerance between the 2 parts, I would think it's pretty straight. ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 8:19pm
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Sure it's not a helm problem? ------------- |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 8:23pm
The wheel is superlight when the cable isn't connected to the rudder. It doesn't feel like it would freewheel if you give it a flick but like there is nothing there. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 8:38pm
John, .004 to .006 isn't close. Yes, as Kevin asked, are you sure it's the rudder and port? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 9:08pm
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Well it's only 0.002-0.003 per side and the rudder moves super smooth until the packing nut is tightened down. Not exactly sure how to check rudder straightness other than a straight edge and look for light but that's a pretty small gap that you'd only be able to see at the perfect angle. Even then, there's no real way to accurately measure it like you can with a driveshaft and a dial indicator. ------------- |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 9:10pm
No but what else can it be if the steering wheel is effortless when the tiller arm is disconnected from the rudder? ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-26-2015 at 10:55pm
I changed out my 95's last spring when I disconnected the cable the wheel seemed to turn ok. I had to change the helm unit because of the new rack side. Without the wheel on when turned by hand I was surprised that it was not smooth and seemed to bind. The lube in it and in the cable had dried out. I sprayed some lube into the helm unit and it was much better. Might be worth a try,but that alone won't help if it's pulling too. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-27-2015 at 12:26am
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I tried spraying lube into the rack last year and didn't notice a difference but with fresh grease on the rudder it may help. I may give it a shot soon. Just for the record, I would absolutely love it if the rudder pulled in one direction. This boat sees most of it's life in a slalom course and it's so much easier to drive when the boat pulls one way. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-27-2015 at 2:11am
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How about a picture of it,I wonder if it's a replacement or the original? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-27-2015 at 8:43am
 ------------- |
Posted By: AAM196
Date Posted: May-28-2015 at 12:25pm
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I am convinced your issue is at the rudder and port... also use 3/16 packing... that is the correct size for your rudder! See photo of rudder port and put zerk there!  The stock trim tab on your rudder will load steering wonderfully once you sort your rudder issue. Good luck! |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-28-2015 at 12:31pm
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So even though there is almost 1/2" of clearance, you just squash 3/16" packing? ------------- |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: May-28-2015 at 12:52pm
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Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-28-2015 at 12:59pm
| If there is less than 1/4 clearance all around, I would suspect you need 3/16" packing. It will squish. If you put 3/16" packing on a port meant for 1/4", it will leak FAST and will be very obvious. If you install 1/4" where 3/16" belongs, you will get stiff steering. Sounds familiar... |
Posted By: AAM196
Date Posted: May-28-2015 at 2:56pm
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If you have the same port I have in my 1999SN... go 3/16" (three wraps). Go with the goretex it is like $6 for a foot and I think that is all you need. Then set that rudder to about 1/16 or 1/8th at most and you will be set!!! or..  
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Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: May-28-2015 at 3:02pm
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Ok thanks. We may be able to get the new packing in this weekend. I have a big roll of the goretex stuff in both sizes so it shouldn't be a problem. May add the extra zerk fitting at the base but we'll see. ------------- |
Posted By: AAM196
Date Posted: June-03-2015 at 6:12pm
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So when you used the proper packing, greased the correct area, and properly set your rudder trim tab... is she steering like a dream now? |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: June-03-2015 at 6:14pm
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Sorry didn't get the chance to change it yet and I head out of town for the next 2 weekends. Hopefully after that I'll be able to work on it. ------------- |