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Alternator upgrade advice

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JoeinNY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2006 at 1:04pm
Geez I took to long to write that one, two responses while I was typing...
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JoeinNY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2006 at 1:02pm
It only has one power input, I would assume that one fuse powers the the fronts, one the back. The manufacturer lists 46 amps at max power but I haven't installed it yet, I would not doubt that it will draw no more than mid 20's underway, still pretty significant especially when you add on the powered sub. I am positive any one of us could drive around all day stereo blaring with a 50 amp alternator and never drain our batterys. However I run the stereo a lot when the boat is off, both when sitting at our dock and inbetween wakeboard sets especially when the girls are screwing around with bindings, having a larger alternator should get the battery back up to full charge a lot quicker, lessening the chance of me having to swim back to the camp to retrieve a jetski to tow the mustang home, that happened last year without the amplifier and powered subwoofer, and the half mile swim was not nearly as fun as the wakeboard set was going to be. This year I am coming back with a bigger battery (after i enlarge the box) and a bigger alternator...maybe 80, maybe 100 depending on what I find, might be overkill but that v8 is damn hard to pull start...
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79nautique View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2006 at 12:34pm
Where are not talking about output voltage or watts, we are talking about consumption by the amp or what current the amp will draw under loaded conditions. So how the amp is rated for output is not relavent.

Bottom line if you are only adding one amp the stock 51A alternator is going to work fine, you could even add another smaller amp and not have a problem, now if you are going to use three or more then that's another story. You should be more worried about what size battery you have in the boat than the alternaotr's output because a group 24 battery isn't going to get the job done for very long and you'll be sitting with the boat idling to keep the battery charged enough to crank it over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2006 at 12:12pm
You can't compare amps by their rating without reading the fine print. There's no regulations on how companies rate their product. Most are rated at the peak, the most it can put out,(short bursts)and some are rated at RMS which is the most continous power with both channels driven. Then you have to look at the frequency at which it is rated. Most rate their amps driving only one frequency, usually a easy to drive midrange tone. The better amps are rated driving a signal 20 to 20k hertz, which is the human hearing range and alot harder signal to drive. Then you have to look at the total harmonic distortion, which should be at .01% range. Anything higher and they are overrating the amp. Most people don't notice distortion at 1%. And remember to raise the volume 1 decibel, you have to double the wattage. Of all the things the government regulates, it's a shame they haven't set standards for amps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2006 at 10:19am
Joe does the amp have two power feeds? I would doubt that it does and most likely all that the amp will draw at most is 23 amps. theres no way that it can draw more. I have a sony explode 300w continous 800w peak amp which has two 25 amp fuses as well and I have a ampmeter as well and have never seen it draw more than 20 amps with the engine running or off. And you won't find anyone that drives a stereo harder than I do. I have mine adjusted so that I can run it a max volume without any noticable distrotion and It does stay at this level for hours on end and I have never had a problem. Personally I think the 100 amp is over kill and a 50-80 amp model would work fine, but to each there own. Tony I'll have to look at your listing and get back with you. It sounds like you have done this under the dash and it would have nothing to do with the engine wiring harness but I'll take a look and get back to you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonydjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2006 at 9:21am
I will be using at least 100amp alternator also Joe if you decide to rewire shoot me an email I will send a drawing that might help we you get ready to change your set-up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2006 at 9:18am
   I have the same amplifier that Tony is talking about above (clarion apx480m), it puts out 4x80 watts rms at 14.4 volts, a fair amount of power. The unit has (2) 25 amp fuses, and draws according to the manufacturer 46 amps at peak power. Between the head unit, the powered subwoofer and that amplifier your going to be 65 amps easy on the stereo alone, forget about it when you add tower speakers and another amplifier down the road (alright that might not apply to you but it is how I am thinking) you should go significantly bigger than a 50 amp alternator IMHO.
      I also doubt the polk mmc650's will handle the amplifier your using, they are only rated for 60 watts rms continuous. They are quality speakers and I am sure if you don't crank on them they will last a while but they wont take continued abuse at that power. Maybe return them and buy some JBL ms920's from Overtons... they are 6x9's so they might not fit, but they are 100w rms and overtons currently has them on sale very cheap. I like the idea of changing the wiring to a fuse box like setup, I think I will borrow that on my project, I will probably power the amplifier seperately though and rely on the two built in fuses. I haven't sourced my alternator yet, so if you find something good let me know..
-Joe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonydjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2006 at 8:12am
79 look at my profile email please I want to forward a drawing.

I rewired the boat like a newer style boat meaning have postive from battery to a fuse block setup 12 circuits so I'm no longer using the old wiring system I know if I did will have problems down the road.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2006 at 6:26am
Tony I would go with the 50 amp model from skidim with the internal regulator. You could use a 80 or 100 amp 10 or 12SI alt if you want. The one from skidim is going to be the easist(sp) to wire that is provided that when you re-wired everthing you basicly kept the stock configuration. The main thing is getting rid of the external regulator.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JEFF KOSTIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2006 at 8:11pm
    Jbear, you keep this site rollin!!!!                            Jeff...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2006 at 8:07pm
Jeff; There sure is lots of interesting stuff on here, just not sure how much of it I understand. I just thought all I hadta do for more volume is crank up the knob on the left.

john
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JEFF KOSTIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2006 at 7:49pm
I better learn how to spell stereo!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JEFF KOSTIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2006 at 7:37pm
   Watch out for wattage on steroe amps. There are several means of measurement (RMS, Peak, Peak to peak) and most will give you the absolute watts output at a particular frequency. I worked on those amps in school and its funny to see 100 watt amp with 7 watt output amplifiers. Some of the real $$$ amps are in RMS and are accurate and will draw tons of current. Like 79N said, It may have a 25 A fuse for a 400 watt amp, which would mean the amp is not really 400 watts!! Just for your info, in loudness, a typical police car siren is 100 watts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim_In_Houston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2006 at 1:12pm
What 79 said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonydjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2006 at 12:07pm
I love this site everybody's got great insight and yes I rewired the entire boat (so I don't have issues later). The last project replace alternator (increase demand from stereo amps) clarion ax480 pushing 4 polk MMC650 and a 10" powered sub. Just wanted to make sure if I should go with the one wire off the alternator Or do what 79 Nautique did with his alternator.

I have not tried staying with the factory 35amp but I think it might become an issue. I beleive in preventing problems not repairing them in the middle of the lake.

Thanks to everyone for advice
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2006 at 11:12am
What about powering my live well and trolling motor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2006 at 7:31am
don't know that I would size the alt based upon the size of the amp. Seems odd that a 550 watt amp could draw 36 amps when it has a 20-25 amp fuse on it, wouldn't the fuse blow, yes it would. Most problems that people have with the electrical system when they add amps and stereo equipement is the way the wire it up. If you run power and ground leads directly to the battery then you really don't have an issue and if you do then add capacitor for when the load is needed. I'm not sure that a 10 SI or 12 SI alternator would be a direct replacement for a '88 ford engine. You could have issues with the mounting holes, bracket and pulleys. If memory serves me right the majority of them went out the door with multi-vee pulleys which don't work very well with single groove pulley's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuttyskier2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2006 at 4:38am
If your alternator is a Motorola the GM SI 10 alternator (marine version of course) is a direct replacement. These alternators are very common and available up to 100 Amps. Also available in "one wire" hookup. I see them on e-bay all the time. Replaced mine with one last summer and it works great. If you want more than 100 Amps you should go with the GM SI 12. It has much better cooling capacity. One thing you'll want to remember,...if you are pulling heavy amps from these alternators (big honkin' stereo amplifiers) you'll want to increase the size of the B+ wire coming from the alternator to the battery cable. If it's currently a 12 AWG wire go with a 10. If it's 10 go with and 8. And don't forget to use a circuit breaker.

To have a ball park idea of how much amperage you'll need from your alternator use the simple formula I = P/E. That means
I (current in amps) = P (power in watts) divided by E (volts). So if your stereo amp is 500 watts continuous you'll want to increase your alternator's output capacity by approx. 36 amps. 500/14 = 35.7.

Notice I said increase it by this much. Because you're already using your alternators capacity to charge the battery, power the ignition, lights, blower, bilge pump and whatever else. In the case above I'd use at least an 80 amp alternator. 100 is better. Also, don't be afraid to go bigger. The alternator will only put out (in amps) what is demanded from your electrical system. So a 100 amp alternator will not put out 100 amps all of the time. So the only fear of burning something in your wiring system should be if you have something short circuited or drawing excessive current. The only thing your limited by here is the size of your wallet! Hope this helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2006 at 12:11am
Just guessing, but I bet Tony's looking for a bigger alternator to power the stereo's etc. If you don't find the answere here, you may check wakeworld.com, or planetnautique.com. There have been many posts there by guys putting massive stereos in the boats as to what alternators, etc. BKH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2006 at 8:26pm
I got mine from skidim alt, conversion kit and new wiring harness pretty easy swap.
Some have gone the route of a single wire alt but you have to do some wiring routing as well I believe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JEFF KOSTIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2006 at 8:23pm
   What do you mean by upgrading? Do you need more current?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tonydjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2006 at 7:21pm
Have 1988 looking to upgrade the alternator searched forums found nothing any advice thank you.

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