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What’s This?!? And more on the YH carb...

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    Posted: November-30-2008 at 11:24am
I just noticed in the post about YH carbs something on a pic of one of the engines. While most (myself included) were busy probably looking at the fancy schmancy intake and big carb on that purdy 312 (see pic below), there's something I just noticed at the bottom of the pic. It looks like there's a garden spigot in the oil pan drain hole! What's up with that?

Is that something "home made?" Never seen anything like it.

NEXT: I guess I threw too much info. in the last reply on the YH carbs -- I knew it was kind of a long hodge podge of info. so
here it is summarized: It looks like a couple sites indicated 128 CFM for the Carter YH single barrel. Does that seem "low?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2008 at 11:44am
That is one of the things I've got to ask PO about. I had noticed it on the pics he sent me, but never asked. A "bolier drain" is on one of the receipts I have for the engine. I'm assuming that one was there and he just replaced it on the rebuild. I would have put a plug in it as I probably won't be using it. Pete, does your engine have one?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2008 at 12:00pm
Bruce,
No, You now have a early version of a quick drain kit! The only problem is a normal garden hose won't fit through the hull's bilge drain!!

I did notice it and actually thought it was a pretty good idea! You should be able to find some smaller tubing at the hardware and hose barb/bush it to a 3/4" straight thread female garden hose adapter.

Craig,
We need some of our "gear head" members to calculate out the CFM needs of the 312. I've never done it but I think it may just be the volume (cfm) needed at a max WOT RPM???

Where did you find the 128cfm? If you relate the two side drafts to a two bbl. carb, are they rated for around 260cfm??

I sure hope you don't have any ideas that would disappoint me - like a 4bbl. conversion???


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2008 at 12:30pm
I guess Interceptor was ahead of their time. A quick drain kit and whatever else we were talking about last week that they were doing 20 years before everyone else.

Pete, got to like the 235 hp for the 4 brl versus the 215 hp 2 1 brls. My flame arrestor just barely sticks up over the center section. Maybe with a new flame arrestor we'll be able to go with no scoop. We'll need one anyway if we run the vent you told me about that is under the old flame arrestor to the working flame arrestor.

Reid needs the scoop because he's got that big 390. What a cool engine that is. It sounds great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2008 at 12:57pm
Bruce,
I was being facetious with the quick drain!! The PO added it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2008 at 1:46pm
carb cfm calculator

Looks like a 450 would be about right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2008 at 3:04pm
Alan,
The 312 red lines at about 4200 - 4300
I got 315 CFM (rounded figure with the 83% V.E.) using a 4200 red line and the preset Volumetric Efficiency Of 83%.

Using a red line of 4300. the CFM goes up to 322.

Am I reading it incorrectly? Is the 83% V.E. pretty much the same with all engines? What changes it? Valving?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2008 at 3:33pm
I was guessing yuo might be able to turn it to 5000. I think that motor would need some cam and head work to be able to benefit from much additional cfm over stock.

Based on our other knowledge base we know that the 302 4v motors typically shipped with a 450 cfm carb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2008 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:


Pete, got to like the 235 hp for the 4 brl versus the 215 hp 2 1 brls. My flame arrestor just barely sticks up over the center section.


Bruce,
I've seen the 235HP figure thrown around before but never with anything to back it up. Where did you get it? When the PO rebuilt the 312, do you know if any internal mods were done on it?

I know your arrestor sticks up just above the cockpit bulkhead for looking at other Classics with the downdraft. The pictures in the brochures show that the top was close to the bottom edge of the bulkhead. Did you get any part of the original dog house?

Sorry I keep calling the Classic "yours" - I should be calling it "the boys"!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2008 at 5:58pm
Pete, I thought I got the 235 hp from you in the other thread, but maybe it was X55. My claim is that it's got 215 hp. The PO told me that the block was "boiled", the crank polished, new bearings, rings and a valve job. The only mod I'm told is that the valves will handle no lead gas. There are receipts for all the work. The starter and alternator were rebuilt. The fuel pump is new. The carb is new. It's only been run 5 minutes. Hopefully, it will run like a charm, although I would guess that we'll have some tweaking to do.

We got a bunch of spare parts like a RH cam and distributor in good condition, bell housing with Velvet Drive among boxes of other stuff. We haven't even looked at it all yet.

No dog house came with the boat. Reid is giving me dimension for his. The carb w/o the arrestor is below the bulkhead. Maybe a lower profile flame arrestor can be had. Right now it barely sticks up past it.

I was told yeasterday it's our boat. Most everything I have is ours. I guess it's rubbed off on them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 64X55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-01-2008 at 12:14am
Pete - I did a CFM calc. myslef with only 80% efficiency entered and got about 325 CFM (from this web site)

http://www.buicks.net/shop/reference/carb_cfm.htm

But I see you mentioned the slightly higher efficiency (83%) and slightly less RPM's (4200-4300), hence the slight difference.

The 128CFM (per YH carb) number came from the 2 sites cited in the other post. One was something about Black Hawk Engineering and it seemed like they were quite knowledgeable. The other (see other post) just kind of re-affirmed it because I saw the same number (128CFM) again.

So, if the number really is correct, then, as I think you mentioned, the combined CFM would be around 260 (or exactly 256). That's what got me to thinking that they weren't doing as much as they could. Even at your lower number from your calc. of 315CFM, that seemed a little low.

I guess the bottom line was maybe like -- Hey, at a time when many comparably sized boats like Chris Craft's old inboard runabaouts were getting 185hp out of their Chevrolet 283c.i. engine, getting 215hp and the low profile to boot (with the 312) was a great thing and those little carbs fit the bill to do that.

Space, as we know with the X-55 (or any boat design really) is an important design factor and the low engine profile made the boat look very sharp (I think).

And don't worry - I'm pretty well determined to keep that engine as is. I like it's (the engine's) original look, and I like the engine box's original look AND, shoot, the Dunphy went "almost" too fast for itself "as designed" anyway when you think about it.

Maybe with some other boats it would be cool to play with the 312 (and that one pictured above I gotta say, looks pretty sweet!), but for the Dunphy X-55, I think it should be kept as is, if possible.

Oh, by the way, I thought the drain plug looked a little unusual, but I actually did think it was a pretty cool idea, if it works. Why fiddle with wrenches and pans, etc. if you could drain the oil right out in a hose?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-01-2008 at 7:34am
Bruce,
It must have been Craig talking about the 235HP and I don't know where he got the figure. Maybe from another 312 owner who converted to the downdraft and found the 235 figure from a automotive spec. Not to sure how accurate that would be because I feel the marines were cammed differently than the cars.

Craig,
Remember that the Gray 327 developed 225HP with the same YH set up. I'm glad to hear you're not considering a alternate!!


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