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351 W stops after being shut off wont start

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moody Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2015 at 8:23am
I was not able to water test the Martinique when I purchased it. There were a couple of things that I missed but overall, I think it's a good boat. Stringer are original and I'm not sure of their condition.
   This boat originally had a Holman Moody 302. It reportedly froze and cracked. PO purchased the boat and installed a mid 80's rebuilt 351W. Also did interior.
   I do realize that heat should not affect a restart but the boat will fire up when it has a chance to cool. Figured it couldn't hurt to actively pull the heat and enjoy the boat while I diagnose. I have an old school boat mechanic who I've spoken with quite a bit who has made made many suggestions. I'll probably get it to him in the spring first thing.
     As for pulling from the lift ring, I cringe when I hear people say they do that. I have owned an 18' Chris Craft Cavalier for 13 years (zero issues!) and retro fitted a steel plate across stringers to accept a heavy duty tripod pylon (no tubes on this pylon). The Martinique came with a heavy solid steel finger eye pole but the diameter is too big for the receiver. The plate across the stringers is gone. The pole is beautiful and I have an install plan!
   I love the stories in Diaries. I'll add to.
Again, thanks for the welcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2015 at 8:59am
Richard,
Do you know the 351 engine rotation that was installed? Hopefully it's a RR. If you're not sure, a good indicator is looking at the prop. A RR should turn clockwise for the forward direction looking at it from the aft. In the maintenance section, there's a FAQ thread. If you haven't already, take a look at it since there are links to fantastic threads for almost anything you need to know. If not, you know there are plenty of members who can answer questions. Do take a look at checking stringers as well as alignment. In 72, I'm pretty sure (Tim will know for sure) that the pylon had a square base welded to it for bolting to the sole and then the bottom fit into a cup that is glassed into the hull at the keel. Your hull may already have the cup. Take a look. On the underside of the sole, there should be wood spanning the main stringers for reinforcement.

Do you know what the PO did with the H/M? Being such an original type, I was disappointed to hear of the repower. However, he did put a good engine back in.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2015 at 9:44am
Nice looking boat, most likely culprit to your no start would be a dripping carb flooding out the engine, after float bowl is empty and the gas evaporates it starts again. Of course it could be electrical as well, best way to check is to have a timing light with you to check for spark next time y0u get the no start condition. If it shows a spark then investigate the fuel system if it has no spark then its time to look at the ignition system. Until then just wait it out... removing the heat from the box through a fresh air blower is not a fix for anything, if your cooling system is working correctly you can remove more heat from that engine with the unlimited amount of cool water available than you could ever remove by blowing cold air across the outside of the motor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moody Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2015 at 9:45am
     It is a right rotation with a 4 blade prop. I have no idea what became of the Holman Moody 302.
     From photos of other Correct Craft pylons, I see the spanning plate between stringers. Mine has been cut out. Looks to have been wood with steel. My pylon diameter and shape does not match the receiver glassed into the hull. I'm thinking of a steel plate with a center pylon hole to span stringers and a steel tube cuff to slip over the receiver and pin through the securing hole. Insert the pylon through the stringer plate, into the cuff and secure it with a pin.
   I'll see what I can determine on stringer condition.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moody Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2015 at 9:49am
Hi Joe
I know you are absolutely right. Wish it were the beginning of the season. I'm anxiously awaiting spring! Meanwhile, I'm staying happy taking care of cosmetic and other minor issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2015 at 9:50am
Might want to use stainless steel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2015 at 9:54am
Richard,
How about posting a picture of the pylon you have. Personally, to aid rigidity, I would avoid an adapter which adds another connection point unless this cuff is firmly attached to the pylon.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moody Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2015 at 9:59am
True happiness will be resolving the hot start issue!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2015 at 10:01am
Originally posted by Moody Blue Moody Blue wrote:

   Two days ago, with my hot start issue, I immediately raised the engine cover and removed the flame arrester for cooling. In 5 minutes, 10 tops, she fired with one throttle pump on the Holley. Now thinking that heat needs to be removed from the engine compartment.   


I agree with Joe. 5-10 minutes will not make a difference in how much the engine cools. Next time remove the flame arrestor even before you shut it down and look down the throat of the carb immediately thereafter. Gas dripping will cause your problem or there is another electrical issue. Component heat (like a hot coil) could be a factor but ambient heat is not your issue.
We need more info after you get a chance to investigate a little more.

When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2015 at 11:24am
Agree with joe and Eddie. You're doing more harm than good by pumping the throttle if the carb is drippy. That is by far the most common culprit to the "poor hot starting" issue... Temp actually does not play a role in that case. Do as joe says and do some testing.

Post a pic of the pylon. There would not have been any metal reinforcement in the floor or stringers prior to the aluminum engine cradles that started on some models in 1980. The pylons with the square through bolted flange didn't start until '76. Prior to that, they relied on the cup in the hull and the pass through the floor (or wood member just below it). It would help to see what you're working with before you devise a plan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moody Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2015 at 11:34pm
Thanks everyone. Truly appreciate your knowledge and input. Can't do much with her until spring. Close look at carb will be first thing.
I've been trying to post more pics but it seems to be hit or miss. Feel like I was lucky to get the earlier ones posted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moody Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-06-2015 at 9:32am
/Users/jannettehogshire/Desktop/IMG_2118.JPG/Users/jannettehogshire/Desktop/IMG_2119.JPG

This is the pylon. Beautiful piece but not what i've seen as factory equipment and not sized to fit my factory receiver. OD is similar to OD of receiver in hull. I"m thinking that the attached bracket shown in pic will come off and not be used. Pole and new stainless stringer plate would be welded to become one unit. Cuff welded to bottom of pylon to fit down over receiver and pin secure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moody Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-06-2015 at 9:34am
oops. wrong way to post pics!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-06-2015 at 9:55am
Richard,
Use the "post reply" and not the "quick reply". Click on the icon of the tree with the up arrow. A box will come up allowing you to select the picture off your computer.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phillipsrj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-06-2015 at 2:37pm
It seemed that when I was having the problems (which I have not fully solved yet) That the Blower was not reducing the heat but taking the extra output from the alternator and thus lowering the volts to the ignition system?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-06-2015 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by phillipsrj phillipsrj wrote:

It seemed that when I was having the problems (which I have not fully solved yet) Commodore Bob

You haven't done the recommended testing!!
Originally posted by phillipsrj phillipsrj wrote:

That the Blower was not reducing the heat but taking the extra output from the alternator and thus lowering the volts to the ignition system?
Commodore Bob

Bob,
How about starting over and reading this complete thread (from the top of page #1)? It seems that you are not following any of our suggestions.
In THIS thread:
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Heat is not a factor in your no start problem. On most boats, ventilation blowers weren't even used until around the late 60's. Their intent is to vent any possible fuel vapor to prevent a potential explosion. Keep it mind there are plenty of engines out there that start under hotter conditions. A good example would be one out in the hot sun in the desert.

Originally posted by JoeinNY JoeinNY wrote:

removing the heat from the box through a fresh air blower is not a fix for anything, if your cooling system is working correctly you can remove more heat from that engine with the unlimited amount of cool water available than you could ever remove by blowing cold air across the outside of the motor.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moody Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2015 at 8:28am
Hi Peter
    Yes, I use the "post reply" button and the tree with arrow icon. I choose my photo, hit OK to allow it to upload but then get the message "You have already selected a file with this name. Please select another file or rename". At that point, I'm not sure how to do that.    I've been able to get the photos in my file manager. I've been using my iPad and was able to get the two pics of the boat posted. Tried my main computer also. Everything flows until I get the roadblock message. I'll keep at it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2015 at 8:34am
Richard,
I've run into the same problem when a picture is already in my file manage. I don't know if it's the correct way to handle it but I've just gone into my computer and changed to name of the picture. I'm sure there's another way and someone I'm sure will come along and give some advice.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2015 at 12:38pm
Are you able to get to the photos on your file manager? If so, I've got an easy fix.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2015 at 12:48pm
1.) Towards the upper left, click on "Member Control Panel" with the little picture of the gear.

2.) When you get to that screen, click on File manager. It will take a few seconds to switch to that tab

3.) Find the photo you want, highlight and do a single click. You'll then get a preview. And a link with the file name. This link is the moneymaker.

4.) In my case, I've got one called Carb_005.jpg. Now, knowing this alone isn't helpful, but if I click on the link Carb_005.JPG I'll go to a brand new page with the full address in the address bar:
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/uploads/6518/Carb_005.JPG

5.) Copy this address, now paste it in between these tags:
{img}http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/uploads/6518/Carb_005.JPG{/img}

6.) Now, I used squiggle brackets for demonstration purposes. Those won't work. Just changes all your { to [ and your } to ] and you should have the picture directly posted.

7.) Por ejemplo:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phillipsrj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2015 at 2:10pm
OK C R OW for dinner the boat started and ran with the 12v 3olm coil with resistor but would not go over 3200 rpm's.

Back to the dock I pulled off the spark arrestor and saw fuel dripping from the primary on the starboard side of the carb. Now What.? Rebuild the carb? I put the old coil back on but did not have time to test before the rains came.

Commodore Bob

PS: I have to trailer my boat 22 miles to the lake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2015 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by phillipsrj phillipsrj wrote:

OK C R OW for dinner the boat started and ran with the 12v 3olm coil with resistor but would not go over 3200 rpm's.

Back to the dock I pulled off the spark arrestor and saw fuel dripping from the primary on the starboard side of the carb. Now What.? Rebuild the carb? I put the old coil back on but did not have time to test before the rains came.

Commodore Bob

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Bob,
It's great that you found CCfan and welcome. The normal request is for pictures. We'd love to see some. A diary entry would be great as well.

Make sure it's not flooding. When you shut it down, look down the throat of the carb. (remove the flame arrestor). If you see gas dripping, the carb most likely needs a rebuild.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phillipsrj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2015 at 3:24pm
I am thinking that I need to find a re-build kit. I see on a forum that the carb # is by the Choke?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2015 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by phillipsrj phillipsrj wrote:

I need to find a re-build kit.
Commodore Bob

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2015 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Agree with joe and Eddie. You're doing more harm than good by pumping the throttle if the carb is drippy. That is by far the most common culprit to the "poor hot starting" issue... Temp actually does not play a role in that case. Do as joe says and do some testing.

Yes pumping the throttle is just adding to the "flooded" condition (i.e. excess fuel in the inlet manifold and combustion chamber). Every time you pump the throttle the accelerator pump squirts more fuel into the inlet manifold. Before fuel injected cars we learnt to remedy the "flooded" condition by holding the foot to the floor (throttle plate wide open) while cranking the engine to clear.

If you're going through hell, keep going

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2015 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by lewy2001 lewy2001 wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Agree with joe and Eddie. You're doing more harm than good by pumping the throttle if the carb is drippy. That is by far the most common culprit to the "poor hot starting" issue... Temp actually does not play a role in that case. Do as joe says and do some testing.

Yes pumping the throttle is just adding to the "flooded" condition (i.e. excess fuel in the inlet manifold and combustion chamber). Every time you pump the throttle the accelerator pump squirts more fuel into the inlet manifold. Before fuel injected cars we learnt to remedy the "flooded" condition by holding the foot to the floor (throttle plate wide open) while cranking the engine to clear.

And the reason I told Bob this in the 3rd post!!!!
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

If you see gas dripping, the carb most likely needs a rebuild. If it is floofing, in the short term, when starting open the throttle almost all the way. This allows more air and will overcome all the gas.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moody Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2015 at 7:42pm
Brian, thank you! That worked.
   This is the pylon. The OD iOS greater than the ID of the receiver in the hull. Utilizing the receiver with a joining cuff and a stainless plate spanning stringers should be rock solid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2015 at 8:25pm
Richard,
I don't feel that pylon you have will work for your boat. The CC's pylons are a larger diameter giving it the strength needed to be supported at the keel and then at the sole. Note on your pylon there's a support which originally would have been fastened to a deck bulkhead running port to starboard giving it the needed support close to the ring and finger. Take a look at the diary's and brochures to see the larger diameter CC used. Your's will bend and could be a big problem.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moody Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2015 at 1:09am
Gotcha. I wasn't sure where that support bracket was originally. I can see that pole bending too. It seems substantial but I know what kind of pull a skier puts on it, not to mention a tube. We tubed solely behind wave runners. I'm thankful for your input because I was full steam ahead on the project.   Are CC poles tough to come by?
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