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edamario
Groupie Joined: July-13-2019 Location: Holliston MA Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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Posted: July-30-2019 at 1:01am |
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Hey gang, I am looking for a little advice/insight from you all. I took out my 79 Ski Tique this weekend and towards the end of the day, the prop hit something under water, either a log or a rock. (it was a "all clear" area which really frustrates). The prop needs some repair, but after impact, I could no longer find neutral. Forward and reverse still worked fine, but there was no in between at all. Any thoughts if this is coincidental or what I have to do to get neutral back? Hoping this Sounds like a cable as opposed to a transmission issue?
Thanks in advance, Eric |
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'79 Skitique - first boat
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10762 |
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The easy way to find out if it's a cable issue would be to disconnect the cable at the transmission shift lever and try shifting from forward or reverse into neutral using the shift lever on the transmission and see what that tells you
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edamario
Groupie Joined: July-13-2019 Location: Holliston MA Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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Meaning wether the cable moves? Is there such a thing as it being stretched out?
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'79 Skitique - first boat
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MourningWood
Gold Member Joined: June-13-2014 Location: NorCal Status: Offline Points: 891 |
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Assuming it was working fine before impact....then impact, now doesn't work......I'm taking a wild guess that the impact caused it. ;- )
Follow the suggestion: disconnect the shift control cable at the transmission, then shift "manually" by moving the lever itself, thereby eliminating the cable altogether. My guess, unfortunately, is that the sudden impact caused internal damage.... |
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1994 Ski Nautique "Riot"
1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun" 'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
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FFImarine
Senior Member Joined: June-21-2016 Location: Medina Status: Offline Points: 142 |
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Did the engine shut off due to the impact? chances are your trans took the brunt of the impact. Which way does the the shaft turn while in neutral? If it drags in neutral you did internal damage to the trans probably warping the forward clutch pack. We rebuild these on a daily basis and see this all the time from impacts
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edamario
Groupie Joined: July-13-2019 Location: Holliston MA Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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Sorry for the delayed reply. Didn't have time to get to this till today.
No, the engine didn't shut off. I immediately put it in neutral on impact for a "WTF moment". Then back into forward, and it went just fine, though with a lot of vibration as the prop got chewed up. Today, I got back at it, and disconnected the shaft (sorry for lack of proper vocabulary) so I wasn't turning the prop dry. In neutral it does rotate slightly, but I was told by SkiDim that if it can be stopped by hand (or a piece of wood), then it's okay.. Though rotating, it easily stopped, so I figured (hoped) it was okay, and decided to take the boat out to see what it did in water. Off the bat, the prop wouldn't engage in reverse, but worked forward. Trolled about as bit thinking I'd see if it would go into neutral and reverse. Went into reverse, and neutral, but not forward. Finally got forward back, and lost reverse. Fun docking like this, but I managed. After all this, I have to think you're spot on that it's the clutch pack. Ordered the transmission overhaul kit from SkiDim, and looking for an inboard boat repair. Which brings me too... just how hard is the rebuild? I've done it on cars (66 mustang), but is a boat transmission (Velvet Drive 1:1) repair recommended for pros only? Thanks in advance! |
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'79 Skitique - first boat
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FFImarine
Senior Member Joined: June-21-2016 Location: Medina Status: Offline Points: 142 |
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There pretty straight forward.. if you’ve rebuilt automotive transmissions then it should be a piece of cake. Give us a call if you have questions and I’ll be more then happy to answer any questions you might have. 330-273-8291
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10762 |
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So it sounds like your transmission works in Forward, works in Neutral and works in Reverse just not all 3 when they're supposed to. They all take turns working per your description.
It's possessed and has a mind of it's own Did you try the suggestion to disconnect the cable and shift it locally at the transmission? It takes about a minute or 2 to check. Then after that you can decide it's broken internally |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Eric,
I recommend you purchase a new damper plate. They are inexpensive and always a good idea to R&R when you pull a trans. From your description of your testing, I feel there's a chance that the plate is damaged and the trans is still good. Damper plate for a Velvet Drive. |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Online Points: 3337 |
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If you've gotten a C4 back together right, you should be able to get this back together right
The trick is identifying all the damage Or one could hand it off to FF and be assured it will be turnkey |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Eric,
It's always a good idea to ask here first before ordering parts. There are less expensive (30%) alternates for the same. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10762 |
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You only think it's the same Pete It's missing some pieces that come in the SkiDim kit, but you can find the same Alto kit that SkiDim sells for around 160 at Ebasicpower A little research will tell you the difference Or buying the less complete one like I once did, also tells you the difference. |
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edamario
Groupie Joined: July-13-2019 Location: Holliston MA Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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Yeah. We tried that. I was having some other carb hiccups, and checked/adjusted the cable as it was a bit off... but I did, in the water, give it a go, and no go.
I should've said the only way I could get it to engage in forward (I had to do this twice) was push the throttle more than comfortable, and then it'd catch. Fun! |
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'79 Skitique - first boat
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edamario
Groupie Joined: July-13-2019 Location: Holliston MA Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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8122pbrainard - Interesting RE the damper plate. I just realized that I have a Marine engine/trans shop in my town (which is REALLY random) and they specialize in Velvet Drive transmission rebuilds. I think I'm going to do it myself to save the $700, but I wonder if they can look at the damper plate once removed, and tell me if bad or not.
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'79 Skitique - first boat
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Eric, I'm confused. Maybe it's your wording? Did you do as Ken suggested? "locally at the transmission"?
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edamario
Groupie Joined: July-13-2019 Location: Holliston MA Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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whoops. 8122pbrainard = Pete. Sorry about that.
Thanks Pete. |
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'79 Skitique - first boat
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10762 |
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If the damper plate is bad, you'll need assistance from no one to figure that out, it'll be terribly obvious. Any strange loud grating noises when the transmission decides to go into whatever gear it wants to? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Eric,
Are you getting any unusual noises? |
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edamario
Groupie Joined: July-13-2019 Location: Holliston MA Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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Not at all. The engine sounds fantastic, and when working the transmission sounds just fine. It's just a violent clunk at too high an RPM when it finally jams into gear. Once going, it's 100% normal sounding. Weird, right?
As it's $300 for the parts (plus my mechanic minded father who's thankfully free) I think a full rebuild is in short order. Stopped by marineenging.com to discuss (they are in my town amazingly) and while they do superb work, and would rebuild for $850, I just can't stomach another $850 into this boat. It's become the proverbial "hole in the water...." Ha. I'll take pics through the rebuild & share. Should actually be fun I think. |
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'79 Skitique - first boat
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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This may be some help- Velvet drive rebuild
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Weird? Maybe not. Besides trying to shift the trans at the trans shift lever, I think you had better review how to adjust the shift cables. Courtesy of Alan via Gary.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10762 |
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So Pete Did you just blow this off and decide to ignore the error in your ways ? I'll assume you did, so I'll post a link to the more complete kit that includes the steel and the bronze clutch plates so that all the clutch plates can be replaced. You should educate yourself on what a banner kit is For the next guy who might be wondering, here's the link link |
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baitkiller
Platinum Member Joined: October-11-2011 Location: SW Florida Status: Offline Points: 1693 |
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Busted clutch disc. Rebuild is cake. Just don't do it on the kitchen table unless you're single or wish to be.
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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edamario
Groupie Joined: July-13-2019 Location: Holliston MA Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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@baitkiller
Part 1, no. Part 2, hmmm. @Pete - I hear you on adjusting the cable, and had done so. When it died in the water, we tossed back the engine cover, disconnected and tried to do it manually at the trans. N0 go there either. Appreciate the advice, and will file it away as it's super thorough, but I'm putting money on the rebuild. Kitchen table or not. |
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'79 Skitique - first boat
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10762 |
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Do you have a manual to use for the job or are you just wingin' it?
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edamario
Groupie Joined: July-13-2019 Location: Holliston MA Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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Winging it sounds like a bad idea. No, I chatted up a few shops, and am doing with someone who's done many auto transmissions in the past. I've found a schematic,. and will keep digging pre doing the job for sure, but it doesn't look much more difficult than a C4 transmission, but looks can be deceiving.
Do you have something to share?;) |
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'79 Skitique - first boat
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10762 |
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Nah, just asking You could try the link below though from the CCF reference section link It's easier than a C4 but it's good to have the manual. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10762 |
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You can find later versions of the manual on line also.
One other little thing....................count the number of clutch plates you take out and put the same number back in otherwise it'll be all bound up and constipated That applies to the forward and also the reverse clutches. The kit has more plates than you'll need. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3620 |
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I repaired mine with no transmission background, it was 25 years ago but it worked great after the fix, I only had a picture of the tranny parts to go by when I did mine.
It has been a long time but I remember it being pretty easy. At that time West Coast Correct Craft was right down the street for me and had all parts on the shelf. Back then it was easy to unbolt and lift out the tranny for repair. Might be much harder 25 years later. I would probably need a lift to get it out safely. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Whats wrong with the link I shared ?? |
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