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A buffalo’s first bowtie

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nuttyskier2002 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuttyskier2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2008 at 10:40pm
Greg, check the rockers with both intake and exhaust valve closed. Then bump engine over to next cylinder in the firing order and check that one. Lifters must not be on the cam lobes when checking for slack/collapsed lifter.
95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier

Former boats:
88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II
59 Chris Craft Capri (woody)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2008 at 1:20am
It may just be in the valve train. I went through each one and they all would just turn, so I readjusted them. We'll see in the morning. I did turn it over and it sounded like the timing was too far advanced by the way it turned over. I'll charge the battery and back the timing off a hair and see what I have tomorrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2008 at 12:58pm
they should have one turn of lifter spring drag, remember you go to o clearance when the rod stops turning and go an additional one turn on the jam nut which will put pressure on the rod and rockers, if you did find a loose one it could be collapsed but i doubt it. i think you have the newbie jitters and I have yet to fire a new rebuild and not get a noise. its important to get that base timing set and then break her in.
remember, if you run the boat out of the water in gear you may get more torsional noises because of no load on the drive train
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2008 at 1:14pm
Thanks Eric. The rocker adjustment is what I did last night. Every one of the rods would just turn...guess I did them all the same wrong way?!!? LOL Anyway, I did the readjustment as you described, and I'm sure I have the newbie jitters! I did feel better about the oil being clean in the top and bottom...whistle clean.

Again, we'll see in a few, and I appreciate the phone time yesterday...I have a minute now if you do!   770-536-2328
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2008 at 1:18am
Hey Cat...it works even with the mufflers on!

Yes, happy 4th everyone, and I wanted to let you guys now that I made my deadline. Amy said she'd like the boat in by today and I made it with a little time to spare.

So thanks to some more good advice from a few friends, I got some water time in. I had adjusted the rockers too tight last night, and Amy and I got that squared away...yes, she got her hands dirty and even did some engine work! The pumpkin sounds sooooo good! I have some carb tinkering to do, but the battle is won I think.

I also got to meet Skicat today. He was in my neighborhood and stopped by. He said "how much water do you have at the slip?"(on his cell phone from his BFN)...I said check it out for me!   LOL   He and his wife were great company and stayed to watch me do the rockers. Greg, next time we get together we'll do the steaks and some riding!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2008 at 1:36am
Congrats on getting it running Greg. It was great meeting you and Amy today. Steaks & some BFN runs together sounds great to us. Hope you got it finished in time to check out the fireworks tonight. Still time to make Green Lake!
Greg

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2008 at 2:30am
Buffalo, I've been a lurker in here for a while and just wanted to congratulate you from Argentina, this is one hell of a project you have done and with so much quality, I'm really happy for you, now please enjoy the boat and ran the hell out of it!!!!!!

PS: you can post pics of the fun too!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2008 at 8:37am
Glad everything worked out without having to pull the motor. Now enjoy all your hard work.

Keep the PICs coming have really enjoyed this thread and may it continue.
If you're going through hell, keep going

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuttyskier2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2008 at 6:39pm
Greg, glad to hear it wasn't a rod! Great work! Yes, do post more pics. Some on the water too.
95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier

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88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II
59 Chris Craft Capri (woody)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2008 at 7:26pm
Thanks guys and we're somewhere beyond happy that it's all turned out like it has! I knew I checked, and checked, and checked putting it together; but like Eric said, I had a good case of the newbie jitters and over-reacted. There are so many noises an engine can make...I bought a long block for the '79 some years back and the first one the marine engine company sent had a rod hitting(which may have compounded my situation this time). At that time a good friend was a good mechanic and he was here to hear it. He immediately said shut it down! It was a very different noise than anything I've heard with this one....but then I second guess myself?!!?   LOL

Life goes on and she sounds good. I just learned how to use a vacuum gauge to set the carb, and that made it sound even better. <---More good how-to from a friend!

The icing on the cake though was Amy's touch...gotta be it, right?       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2008 at 9:17am
Greg, I hope you don't think me rude! We went out and back and yall were gone?!!?

How did it sound pulling out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2008 at 11:23am
Originally posted by BuffaloBFN BuffaloBFN wrote:

Greg, I hope you don't think me rude! We went out and back and yall were gone?!!?

How did it sound pulling out?


Not at all Greg. We were just crusing & the waverunner was low on gas. I needed to get back home to get the yard work done, finish the BFN, etc before Green Lake. I am leaving around noon on Tues & last night was the last chance I had to finish things. Tonight is the Georgia Force playoff game.
Boat sounded great when you left.
Just FYI!
When I left your place, I went around the bend toward the ramp & was going around the first bend to the right. I was on the right side & the DNR was sitting there & pulled me over. Couldn't figure out why, but he said that I was headed for an area that was only 1' deep! He said they marked it Friday, but the marker was gone now. Stay to the left when you head around that area.
Again, congrats on the BFN!
Greg

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wakeboardin2k4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2009 at 10:29pm
So I just finished the 22 pages of reading...long reading, lots of great information. Ive now learned quite a bit more about our PCM BBC and how different they are from a normal BBC as far as the cam and crank reverse rotation.

I have a couple of questions for buffalo.

1) Why no pics of the "pumpkin" in the boat!!!!!!

2) How much space did you have between the flame arrestor and the engine box after adding the new Edlebrock intake? Not that you are under their measuring, but a guess.

3) What roller rockers did you go with?

4) When you were pricing out the cam, did it make a difference that our PCM motors use a cam gear unlike the automotive world that uses their own cam gear? Just wondering if that attributes to the increase in price of a cam with a "special" firing order.

5) Whats your top speed with the fresh block, new distributor, new carb and new intake?

6) And WHERE ARE ALL THE PICS! And a video of how it soundsssssssssssssssssssssss.

"I'm planning to bring my girl that rides on a trailer with me and leave my girl that complains about camping at home"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2009 at 9:41am
Hey Eric, there ought to be one philosophical answer to all 6 questions, but since I can't think of it...

1. There are a few pics at the end of the pumpkin patch, but mostly there's no pics of it in the boat because its in my shop.

2. The doghouse wouldn't close with the edelbrock so I made a spacer...but then I pulled that intake because I had a sealing problem with it.

3. I had scorpion RR's, but pulled them on some good advice. I was told that I might blow a tip and scatter the lot.

4. Yes, the PCM gear drive is pressed on to the cam, where most use a timing chain that bolts on. My research was on a roller cam; custom rev rot roller cam with the gear drive=$2500.

5. Don't know yet.

6. With a bit of luck, they'll be in the St. John's river thread in a few weeks!


I worked through some tough and expensive lessons and problems. This PCM has a few oddities about it.

Looking good though...just painted it last night!       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wakeboardin2k4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2009 at 3:21pm
wow, Im very sorry to hear that it wasn't up and running for last summer.

It makes me second guess my desire to do anything to my BBC.
"I'm planning to bring my girl that rides on a trailer with me and leave my girl that complains about camping at home"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2009 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by wakeboardin2k4 wakeboardin2k4 wrote:

wow, Im very sorry to hear that it wasn't up and running for last summer.


Thanks, we did get a little time in on the water...even made my july 4 deadline...sort of. LOL

Originally posted by wakeboardin2k4 wakeboardin2k4 wrote:

It makes me second guess my desire to do anything to my BBC.


I'd say don't if your's is running pretty well; not because of the problems I've had, but because the PCM 454's are put together in a certain way and because they are built to last. If a guy kept his oil changed and kept a tune on one, I wouldn't be surprised to see one get 4000 hrs or better. I would have let mine be if it wasn't rusted shut when I got it.

I did read where the gear drive transfers more vibration to the valve train, so I'd guess the overall drivetrain condition is even more important(if possible).

I had my engine balanced, and thanks to Eric I know how to do a proper alignment. Now if I could get my time capsule to quit rattling?!!?   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uk1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2009 at 11:22pm
Greg
If you go new cam,you could addto the mix over 2K new.
Lets have a go
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-13-2010 at 1:33pm
OK, so here's a long overdue cap to this thread. The noise I was chasing turned out to be the cam gears tapping together at one spot in the rotation. I think it happened when I put the crank gear on. My theory is that I bent the nose of the crank messing with the gear and that, in turn, bent the cam. Anyway, problem solved and lesson learned. I still haven't found actual specs on where the cam gear should be positioned on the nose of the cam(press fit), but I did get this 'yet untried but makes sense' tip-blue the distributer gears and check how they are meshing after a few turns by hand.

A few parts later I'm turning an Acme 1598(13x14) at 4500 rpm's and 46 mph on GPS. That's with a little crud on the bottom, a few nicks in the gel, marina gas(yuk), and a half a tank of it.

I want to thank everyone who helped me along the way. This would've been a much darker tale without CCFan and all of yall!    

Now that I know where all the bolts go, I'll be taking a few back out this winter...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-13-2010 at 1:51pm
Greg, 46mph on the GPS is pretty decent. I bet you could get that up with a few people in the back seat or a full tank of gas. What are you running for gas (and timing)? I bet that thing has 47-48 in it if you play with the weight and clean the hull...

It will be very interesting to see a freshened top end on that thing and find out how it runs. What are your goals for the project?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-13-2010 at 5:56pm
I hope the gas was 89 though could've been anything; the attendant didn't know. I usually carry 93 down instead of using the marina, but we wanted to look at retaining walls last Sunday from the water and it was getting late. Lazy may have factored in by then as well. My timing is at 12.

For the record, it finished as a stock rebuild except 2 things(3 if you count paint), the DUI HEI unit and the cam. The cam is barely more than stock(a friend called it teeny)...the DUI has been trouble free. We've been running the heck out of it for some time now but just got the new prop last week.

Sometime this fall I want to take it all down and have the cylinders re-honed. I don't know that I ever got the rings seated right because of all the initial troubles I had. From there, I already have a set of 781 heads from CCH and have a line on a new cam. The compression needs to be raised to something like 9.5-9.8; looks like domed pistons will do that. I'm also going to try the edelbrock intake and roller rockers again, and maybe the 750.

It's gonna be fun this time...and thanks Tim for sharing some of your recent research!





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-14-2010 at 10:45am
Greg - Nice to hear from you. It seems like there is always something else to 'tweak' on our toys! Hope you & Amy are having a great summer.    We are getting our ski hours in, between rainstorms & floods!
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-14-2010 at 12:00pm
Hey Chris and thanks. We've been trying to bring our house into the current century so the boat has been on the back burner. Now that we've made a little progress on the house, I'm sneaking in some time for priorities!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kytom2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-14-2010 at 12:04pm
Great thread Greg. A long read but fun.
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