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phospher View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Winterization
    Posted: September-12-2007 at 7:45pm
I hate to say this but in a few weeks I'm going to be winterizing for the first time. I don't want to pay a boat mechanic $375 bucks so I 'm going to try it my self. I've read a bunch of posts on this site and feel pretty comfortable doing almost everything myself. The question I have is where the heck are these "drains" that everyone speaks of? What do they look like, and how many are there? Anyone have any pictures of where the drains are located?

Thanks gents,
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-12-2007 at 8:10pm
There are 2 drains on the 351w block. This is the port side. The starboard side has one in a similar place, closer to the front of the motor.



There is a drain at the back of each exhaust manifold.



Assuming this is a PCM, there is a drain at the U joint between the thermostat housing and circulation pump.



You should also drain the transmission cooler by pulling the lower hose.



Also drain your strainer if you have one.



The RWP always holds water, so its best to remove it and drain it by disassembling, at the very least. I store mine inside with the impeller removed for the winter. If you have a heater or a shower, those lines need to be drained as well.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-13-2007 at 2:29am
Thanks for the detailed pics! Nice looking engine too. Mine is a 351W Commander but your pictures definitely help.

Thanks
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 10:42am
Lots of great advice.
I also like to fog my engine before winter layup. Open the spark arrester/air filter and drip Mystery Oil in while the engine is running until it stalls out.
I then squirt a couple of oz's of motor oil into each cylinder and paint a little Never Seize on the spark plug threads before reinstalling them. I also put the Never Seize on the block drain plugs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 11:47am
Originally posted by OM45GE OM45GE wrote:

Lots of great advice.
I also like to fog my engine before winter layup. Open the spark arrester/air filter and drip Mystery Oil in while the engine is running until it stalls out.
I then squirt a couple of oz's of motor oil into each cylinder and paint a little Never Seize on the spark plug threads before reinstalling them. I also put the Never Seize on the block drain plugs.

More good advice here.

You'll also want to put fuel stabilizer in the tank. Its wise to run the boat for a while afterwards to make sure it works its way through the carb. Add an oil and tranny fluid change, and thats just about a full winterization.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 12:14pm
$375.00????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
f-k where do you live? Monaco?
ive been wondering why people chuckle when i tell them 140.00 to winterize thier boats (oil changes extra) plus they line up in the fall form a friend told me to bring my boat here for winterization

the problem is i think i should charge what i would pay, i guess i wont retire early
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 1:14pm
Wisconsin. The marina in Oconomowoc quoted me that. It does include an oil change but not tranny.


So here is what I'm going to do for winterization.


-Fill fuel tank 3/4 full. Add stabilizer and run into engine to make sure it get's into the carb and fuel lines.

-Change oil

-Change tranny fluid (BW Velvet Drive 1:1 Dexron Mercon III ATF right?)

- Fog carb while engine is running until it bogs way down or dies.

- Fog each cylinder a little bit.

- Drain water from block, waterpump, and exhaust manifolds. How do I know it's all been drained? When I pull the plugs I assume that water will run out but won't a little bit be left behind?

- Make sure all water is removed from bilge.

- Remove battery and store indoors.


Did I miss anything?

Thanks fellas!

-
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by phospher phospher wrote:

Wisconsin. The marina in Oconomowoc quoted me that. It does include an oil change but not tranny.


Let me guess, Tinus Marine right? They sure know how to put up nightclub prices and they're really proud of their work 'aint they?

Anyway, the list you have sounds good. I always got the engine warm and sucked up pink RV antifreeze through the RW pickup and didn't have to mess with draining everything but your method will work too. I would also drain the tranny cooler and the RW strainer if you have one. You'll have to detach the RW intake hose at the hull fitting to make sure all that water is drained too. I always loosened up the belts for the pulleys (alt. and RW pump) and relieved tension on the alt., RW pump, and circulating pump bearings. Others might disagree but I always felt that everything contracting even more as the cold weather comes in could put more stress on the bearings if the belts weren't loosened up. That was just me though.

Everything else looks to be covered that I can see.

When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



Eddie
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 1:54pm
Oh by the way. If you ever do need service of some sort, I would recommend going to Lauderdale Lakes Marina in Elkhorn. I know that it's a little bit of a trip for you but they do good work and they are reasonably priced. At least they used to be. Tinus will rape you but they'll smile the whole time.
When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



Eddie
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 2:06pm
I do the same as Backfoot with my belts. Dont forget to drain all of the locations that I mentioned above. Once drained, I backfill with antifreeze. It gives me peace of mind that any low spots where water didnt drain wont freeze up and crack anything. The A/F should also help prevent corrosion in the cooling passages.

Otherwise, your list looks good- though I do mine in a slightly different order. I add the stabil first then run it up to temp. Fog the motor until it sputters out. Then I change the oils and drain the water. Remove the RWP and strainer bowl, then backfill with antifreeze. I usually put a couple shots of oil up the spark plug holes last.

The most foolproof way to add the antifreeze is to do it per the PCM engine manual. That involves pouring it in the upper hose that attaches to the RWP (end of hose raised above engine level). You know youve put enough in when you hear it start to drain out of the riser into the exhaust, it takes about 3 gallons if I remember correctly. If you were to draw the A/F up without draining the block, I would be nervous that it wouldnt be circulated through the block enough (too diluted) depending on whether the thermostat is open or closed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 2:16pm
Tr, any updates on painting that trans?
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

Tr, any updates on painting that trans?


I think he should have you tear down the trans and then have the case chromed. It would then match the pipes!


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 5:51pm
yep you guessed it Tinus. I don't think I have a strainer on my raw water pump. The hose from the pickup just goes the the pump that's driven by the belt.

So If I want to add the RV (pink) anti-freeze into the engine I should just put 3 gallons into a 5 gallon bucket, diconnect the pickup hose and put that in the bucket?

I assume I'll need to run the engine for a while, then pull the boat out of the water, disconnect the hose then drop it in the bucket. That way engine will be up to temp and thermostat should be open.

I appreciate everyones help. So happy I decided not to take it to the marina and yes, if ever needed I will use Lauderdale.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by phospher phospher wrote:

So If I want to add the RV (pink) anti-freeze into the engine I should just put 3 gallons into a 5 gallon bucket, diconnect the pickup hose and put that in the bucket?

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

The most foolproof way to add the antifreeze is to do it per the PCM engine manual. That involves pouring it in the upper hose that attaches to the RWP (end of hose raised above engine level). You know youve put enough in when you hear it start to drain out of the riser into the exhaust, it takes about 3 gallons if I remember correctly. If you were to draw the A/F up without draining the block, I would be nervous that it wouldnt be circulated through the block enough (too diluted) depending on whether the thermostat is open or closed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 7:25pm
Originally posted by phospher phospher wrote:

I assume I'll need to run the engine for a while, then pull the boat out of the water, disconnect the hose then drop it in the bucket. That way engine will be up to temp and thermostat should be open.


Good way to destroy the engine. How is 3 gals of anifreez going to properly displace 2 gals of water that is CIRCULATING. Your antifreez is all going to poop out the back. How will the tstat be open enough without a load on the engine?

Just drain the block and manifolds and refill.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by phospher phospher wrote:

So If I want to add the RV (pink) anti-freeze into the engine I should just put 3 gallons into a 5 gallon bucket, diconnect the pickup hose and put that in the bucket?


If you need to pull the boat out of the water before you disconnect the RW intake, the thermostat might not stay open that long. I ran the boat in the driveway with a fake-a-lake and then ran it up to operating temp. Then shut it down and change the oil, then start it again and get to operating temp. Shut it down, disconnect the RW intake and put it in a 5 gallon bucket full of the RV antifreeze. Start it up again and run the whole 5 gallons through it. Just when it got to the end I would fog the carb until it died, pull the plugs and fog the cylinders. Never touched a drain plug anywhere. Did that for over ten years with no problems and also have two buddys that do the exact same for over five years each with no problems. Put stabil in the fuel before you start this whole thing so it circulates through the carb also. You absolutely have to make sure the thermostat is open before you run the antifreeze through.




When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



Eddie
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2007 at 9:43pm
ok, got it. GottaSki lays it out perfect and I'll do exactly that.

I think this is going to be easier than I thought. When I re-tighten the drain plugs in the block I just need to snug em back up right? I just loosened one to see if water would run out and it wasn't very tight. And of course yes water ran out......
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-20-2007 at 1:54am
You can also just remove the thermostat & pour it in that way if you want.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-20-2007 at 2:35am
Occonomowoc...Tinus marine....small, small world!

We use to go up each summer in the 70's & spend a few weeks on that lake!

Bought owr first ski boat from Tinus( and an O'brien team comp)....went out skiing with Tim Tinus to demo the boat...is that dude still arround?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-20-2007 at 3:06am
no idea, never actually been there. i ski on little cedar and big cedar lake in slinger wi.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-20-2007 at 11:52am
Originally posted by stang72 stang72 wrote:

Occonomowoc...Tinus marine....small, small world!

We use to go up each summer in the 70's & spend a few weeks on that lake!

Bought owr first ski boat from Tinus( and an O'brien team comp)....went out skiing with Tim Tinus to demo the boat...is that dude still arround?


Yes, he runs the place now. Nice guy. When I first got out of the service, we lived in an apartment right next to Jane Tinus (Tim's sister) so I got to meet the whole Tinus family at one time or another.

When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



Eddie
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-21-2007 at 12:23am
Ditto on all the above...

I usually try to add fuel stabilizer prior to my last run of the year to ensure it is well mixed and run through all the fuel lines. Prior to storage, I TOP the tank off and add more fuel stabilzer to account for the additional gas I just added. A full tank helps minimize water condensing in the tank. Your earlier post stated you planned on filling it up 3/4 full. Others here know more than me, but that's what I do.   

I also re-grease the hubs on the trailer to get all any water out.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-21-2007 at 3:04am
Eddie; Nice not having to go thru all that anymore...isn't it?

john
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-21-2007 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by jbear jbear wrote:

Eddie; Nice not having to go thru all that anymore...isn't it?

john



John, you got that right!!!!
When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



Eddie
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-07-2007 at 11:17am
how mant times is this gonna get discussed?..anyone ever use the search button?...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-07-2007 at 2:18pm
Ryan, There are always new people to this site and they also may be new to boating and need info as well. This is the reason that Keith added this section in the forums.I myself have found that I too have made comments like "use the search". I do try to explain the search feature first as well as try to provide a link to the thread that may answer their question. New comers to the site may also need some time to figure out where and how to use some of the features. I'm not the best at the computer so I needed the time! Linking and posting pictures was a real challenge at first!

Maybe you missed BKH's very enlightening post so here it is again:

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Posted: 04 October 2007 at 4:34pm | IP Logged | Report Post      Quote bkhallpass
If Keith wants to add new subsections to the forum, or a FAQ section, I think that's great. It will probably help folks navigate the site, etc.

However, I am concerned that over the last several months, I have seen numerous posts where a new member to the site has asked a question only to be chastised to "look it up," "use the search function," "it's all been discussed before."

The fact is, I could probably look up 90% of what is discussed on this site and find a detailed and more accurate response from another source. I don't think that's really the point of the site. Do you?

Many of you have kids. I'm sure you'd be pretty upset if the teacher told your kid "I discussed this last year. Look it up. It's in the text book."

Many of you are religious; attend church; some of you are even ministers. One could argue that there's really no need for a church or ministers when you can look it up. It's all there in the good book.

Again, I don't think that's really the point. BKH

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-07-2007 at 8:02pm
edit**
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-07-2007 at 10:16pm
No...not everyone has a manual and yes you can download off the site. Not everyone is a do it your selfer and when they decide to tackle things themselves , posting and having discussion is a great way to learn! Plus some folks do things a bit different than the manuals read...if someone knows a better way to do it,I want to hear about it!

Ryan...were you born with this sh*t already in your head and never needed to ask a question? If so , your f***ing brillant. As for me , it was not...I once knew only how to start a boat and get it on and off the trailer...at that point ,I had to ask how to winterize too...better to ask when your new at something!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-08-2007 at 7:53pm
reread my post- came off a little different than it sounds..phos-didnt mean to sound like an a$$hole..i wll delete my post cause it didnt come out the way i was thinking
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-08-2007 at 8:15pm
Pete,

was that you or some one else using your name, suggesting Tim pull his tranny and have the case chromed. Doesn't sound storck or period correct to me. Just teasing you a little bit.
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