BIG OIL LEAK

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   Problem with my 1980 ski nautique w/ the 351 windsor engine (reverse rotation).  I replaced the rear main seal (2 piece - lip towards front of engine), oil pan gasket, front main; and the engine still leaks a quart or two a day .  I also am able to see it leak down the front of the bell housing.  

Also, they say the rear main seals for RH rotation engines are different from LH.  I have seen the differences in the front main seal; however, the rear seals look to be exactly the same.  Anyone know what the differences are?  (two piece seal) 

If anyone has any other ideas, please e-mail me at jim@jagcreations.com.  I have heard of "seal savers / speedy seals" however, do not know much about them.  

Thanks,  

Jim Gwisdala Jr. 

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Jim Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jim Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: BIG OIL LEAK Posted: July-26-2004 at 3:48am
	Problem with my 1980 ski nautique w/ the 351 windsor engine (reverse rotation). I replaced the rear main seal (2 piece - lip towards front of engine), oil pan gasket, front main; and the engine still leaks a quart or two a day . I also am able to see it leak down the front of the bell housing. Also, they say the rear main seals for RH rotation engines are different from LH. I have seen the differences in the front main seal; however, the rear seals look to be exactly the same. Anyone know what the differences are? (two piece seal) If anyone has any other ideas, please e-mail me at jim@jagcreations.com. I have heard of "seal savers / speedy seals" however, do not know much about them. Thanks, Jim Gwisdala Jr.

yellowdog Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: December-21-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 135	Post Options Post Reply Quote yellowdog Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: July-26-2004 at 5:16pm
	Even under the best of conditions, replacing a rear main seal is a royal pain, trying to do it with the engine still in the boat must be a bear. Gotta be the seal to leak that much. Assuming that the seal is still intact and the neither the crank or bearing cap are damaged (scratched or out of round) and you staggered the seal when installing it, it should be okay. The Ford manual shows the seal being installed so about 3/8" sticks out of the block on one side. This is to minimize oil passing through the seal and bearing cap joint. Without this stagger, there would be no stopping a leak. While I do not know the differences between a rh & standard rotation rear seal, if they are different, I would think a leak is inevitable. Might want to check with PCM directly or call Vince at skidim.
	Caretaker of the wife's '78 Ski Nautique

AWhite70 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: March-05-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 242	Post Options Post Reply Quote AWhite70 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: July-27-2004 at 1:40am
	The seals for RH & LH are different, they look exactly the same but something about them is different. When I got my engine rebuild kit it came with seals for both RH and LH, I couldn't tell which was which so I had to call Victor Reinz to find out which part number was right.

SS 201 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: October-20-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 232	Post Options Post Reply Quote SS 201 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: July-27-2004 at 8:42am
	There are grooves in the seal that go in the direction of the engine, right or left.

Zigzag Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: July-19-2004 Status: Offline Points: 4	Post Options Post Reply Quote Zigzag Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: August-20-2004 at 2:23pm
	Jim Check your oil pressure sender. Mine had a short pipe extention that was cracked. It would leak while running and I thought it was probably the pan gaskets or main seal. After fixing didn't leak a drop. Tim

Jim Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jim Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: March-13-2005 at 10:50pm
	Pulled out the engine again. Still can not tell a difference between RH & LH rotation rear main seals. The metal rim inside the seal was showing on the top section of the top seal??? Going to install new seals (might try the LH seal) and run the engine on a stand. If anyone else has any ideas, please let me know. Also looking into using a Speedi-Sleeve.

woodyelc Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Post Options Post Reply Quote woodyelc Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: March-17-2005 at 10:21pm
	there is a very big differance in the two seals if you use a L.H. seal in a R.H. motor the crank will push the oil right past the seal. you must use the proper seal for the rotation of the motor. i don't think they make a speedisleeve for a crankshaft. maybe? feel free to call me with any questions. 407-851-1965. years ago Ford put the wrong seal in a motor and after the second time removing the engine i found the problem. very bad oil leak from the wrong seal.

Jim Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jim Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: March-27-2005 at 10:51pm
	Pulled the engine, pulled the trans, installed new RMS (Right Rotation), made sure seals were staggered, main bearings look in good condition, torqued caps to manuf. specs, cleaned oil pan, installed new gaskets, put back in boat . . . still leaks right down center of bell housing plate at a good rate. Can blow air through PCV . . . doesn't look to be clogged. Thought maybe there was a lot of back pressure. The crank looks good. No groove from existing seal. I can't tell if leak is from main seal or oil pan. Wish there was a way to run the engine without the flywheel / housing. Looks like they make a speedi-sleeve for my crank size. Will try that to see if it creates a better seal. Any ideas, please send my way. Jim@jagcreations.com. Thanks, Jim

Jim Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jim Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: April-01-2005 at 12:00am
	I am having one hell of a time with this crank. No one knows if it is a Left Handed Crank or a Right Handed Crank and I can't find any resources online to compare to. If anyone knows a definitive answer, please e-mail me. Thanks, Jim

kenny g Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: December-13-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 318	Post Options Post Reply Quote kenny g Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: April-01-2005 at 10:36am
	that looks like a lefty to me,but i aint no expert.
	kenny g

79nautique Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872	Post Options Post Reply Quote 79nautique Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: April-01-2005 at 1:49pm
	All of the rust isn't helping. But I'm no expert either but this crank seems to be a left hand counter clockwise rotation as viewed from the rear. Compare this to a screw thread and the direction the engine will be spinning so if this crank is spinning clock wise then it is going to pull the oil out the back where as if it rotates the oppiste direction it would be pushing it back into the pan. If your engine is std rotation then use this crank but if it's a rev rotation it doesn't matter which seal you use which I think you have already found out the hard way. .02 worth

Stan C Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: February-18-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 38	Post Options Post Reply Quote Stan C Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: April-02-2005 at 3:01am
	Jim I agree, this is a LH rotation crank (standard automotive).When I rebuilt my RH rotation 351W the crank was rusted and pitted on the seal area worse than yours, my solution was to send the crank to a marine crank repair shop and they welded and remachined the seal area smooth, (no cross grooves). I then used a regular automotive 2 piece seal,it worked like a charm, no oil leak whatsoever. Cost was about $120.00 Stan C
	Stan C

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