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Stringer Replacement 86 Silver Nautique.

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    Posted: February-07-2023 at 5:26am
Originally posted by andrewmarani andrewmarani wrote:


The current state of affairs.  Primary and secondary stringers epoxied into place but not glassed in.  That section of deck is only installed temporarily, as is the engine frame.  Working on fitting the decking to the hull and laying out the seats and engine cover attachment points so I can reinforce those locations.  I need the scraps left from fitting the deck to make up the stringer build outs at the engine and the exhausts.  Tomorrows project is to start cutting up those scraps to into the stringers.






Nice work, great idea using coosa
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2023 at 9:42am

At first I leveled the boat using a 4’ level but I wanted the boat exactly level with no twist when I started epoxying in the stringers..  While trying to figure out a simple way to check for twist in the hull and level the stringers as I cut them to the shape of the hull, I remembered my laser level. The laser has a magnet hanger so I used some small hose clamps to attach a long steel bolt to the back davit hanger, you can see the level and the bolt in the picture.  I set the laser at 8” above the old floor level and rechecked the boat for level.  No surprise, it wasn’t exactly level and had a slight twist.  By the way, what points to measure for leveling front to back is a bit of a guess as the original floor definitely wasn’t flat.

 

I used the 4’ level and a long straight edge to check the sides, from side to side and the laser level to compare points on either side of the bottom working from back to front.  The boat is hung from the davit points but I’ve got supports under the back corners and the front roughly at the windshield to take some load off the davits points and stop the boat from rocking when I’m in it working.  I adjusted the davit hangers and shimmed the supports until I had the boat hull level by laser.  No matter how much I tried, if the hull was level side to side, the top of the sides, side to side just behind the windshield was a ¼” out by the 4’ level.  Back of the boat side to side at the top of the sides was level.  So the boat was built with a slight twist, not enough to matter and I elected to level the floor to the hull, not the sides.

 

Once the stingers where epoxied in I checked them with the laser.  Three where good at 8 ½” below the laser.  One secondary was correct in the back but was a ½” high by the time it got to the front.  15 minutes with a belt sander leveled it out to match the others.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2023 at 9:31am
Looking good. Thanks for the pics
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2023 at 10:06pm
Nice progress. Oh how the pictures help entertain me and others!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2023 at 5:20pm
The current state of affairs.  Primary and secondary stringers epoxied into place but not glassed in.  That section of deck is only installed temporarily, as is the engine frame.  Working on fitting the decking to the hull and laying out the seats and engine cover attachment points so I can reinforce those locations.  I need the scraps left from fitting the deck to make up the stringer build outs at the engine and the exhausts.  Tomorrows project is to start cutting up those scraps to into the stringers.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2023 at 5:11pm
Secondary stringers being epoxied into place.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2023 at 4:55pm
A secondary stringer fresh from the vacuum bag.  Both primary stringers glued up, notched, cut to the hull shape and ready for installation.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2023 at 4:50pm
Stringer pieces cut and ready to epoxy up.  Vacuum bagging a secondary stringer.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2023 at 4:42pm
Going to back up and post some pictures showing the progress now that I understand the IMGBB picture posting thing.

Starting with the hull cleaned out, ground down and ready for stringers.  Probably still have a bit more work on the bilge section.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2023 at 7:07pm
If you want to save some money over the West system and have quality products check this place out- http://www.uscomposites.com/products.html  many boats here in past have used their products. They ship fast and are there to answer any questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2023 at 4:12pm
One more, then I need to go back to money making work.  Leaving that 1" of old fiberglass on one side of the primary and one side of the secondary stringers (shows in my pictures) was awkward during demolition but made reinstalling the stringers very easy.  Just put the epoxy on that 1" of fiberglass, put more on the bottom and push the stringer down and over against the 1" fiberglass.  Then wedge a couple of boards from the sides of the boat to the secondary stringer to keep it pinned in place.  On the primary, just wedge boards from the secondary.  No need to worry about getting the stringers in the right spot or keeping them straight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2023 at 4:03pm
Adding in a lessons learned...  I am using West Systems fast set epoxy (bought the 4 gallon jug at West Marine) and Total Boat for the fiberglass matts.  I also bought six tubes of Total Boat Thixo adhesive epoxy to glue the stringers down.  I really liked the Total Boat adhesive epoxy constancy and the using a caulk gun makes it super simple to install, plus you can stop in the middle of tube come back a day or week later and start up again just by changing the nozzle.  BUT, due to the internal stuff in the tube, you probably get a half a tube of epoxy from each tube so it takes a lot of tubes and the stuff is moderately expensive.  I used four tubes to install and fillet one secondary stringer.

Since I was reluctant to give up the simplicity of using a caulk gun but didn't want to spend that much money, I took an empty tube apart and redid the plunger part to make it shorter and removable.  Now I mix up the West System to a peanut butter consistency and pour/scoop it into the tube, add the plunger and put it in my caulk gun.  Works great and i've used that same tube for the rest of the stringers and the fillets. Pumping epoxy out of a tube is way cleaner and faster then scooping it out of a mixing bucket and apply it with a spatula.  Does take 15 minutes or so to clean up the tube with acetone so it will work next time out. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2023 at 3:44pm
I have all the stringers epoxied down but not yet glassed in.   I'm now laying out and cutting the deck Coosa to fit but not install. Once I have the deck fitted, I will use the scraps to finish off the little parts that epoxy to the secondary stringers at the exhaust mufflers and the sections next to the motor and the primary stringers. THEN i can finally glass in the stringers and move on to foam.  I will post my Coosa cutting plan at some point, though I keep revising it as I see a slightly better layout.

This has been a very patient process. I'm working outside so I'm temperature dependent on any epoxy work.  I put a skirt (using something called a concrete blanket that we use in my company) around the hull to the ground.  Two electric heaters under the boat on a 45 degree day will raise the hull to 60 degrees, good enough for West Systems fast set epoxy.  But I need 45 degrees on a weekend to actually do any epoxy work.

Anyway, your dimensions are very timely and appreciated.  Once I have the deck fitted, I'm going to set the seats and engine cover and mark out where everything is fastened onto the deck parts in permanent marker so I can install the anchor points in the Coosa.  Should be there by this weekend with a couple of work nights this week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote va-river-tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2023 at 3:13pm
I took these measurements from the bow side of the pylon.

pylon to base of observer's seat is 12 1/4 inches.
pylon to inside edge of battery box is 26 1/4 inches.
pylon to base of driver's seat is 6 inches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-18-2023 at 5:01pm
No, I still need those dimensions.  If you can send them that would be awesome.  Yeah, i've been following the elephant discussion as well.  Not sure what I can do to help.

Currently I have the main stringers made, cut to the curve of the hull and notched for the engine cradle etc.  Too cold last weekend to epoxy them in place and I'm taking my wife away this weekend just for fun or, perhaps, to make up for all the previous weekends spent working on the boat...

Since it's been too cold to epoxy, I've started roughing out the Coosa floor panels and the installed secondary stringers give me a level line at the right height to work from.  Lot's of measuring, cutting and shaving to fit the curve of the boat's sides.  Once I have the floor panels cut and dropped temporarily in place, those dimensions will help me figure out where to reinforce for screws.

i've got pictures of the progress to post but waiting for picture posting to go active again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote va-river-tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2023 at 7:03pm
Did you ever get the dimensions you needed?  I think all 86 Skis have the same measurements but I do have a Silver that I can grab some numbers for you.  I'm also looking to so stringers in the next year or three so this thread caught my eye along with the elephant.

pylon to base of observer's seat.
pylon to inside edge of battery box.
pylon to base of driver's seat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-14-2023 at 8:44am
Welcome to the site.  I usually start here when I plan a new repair to my boat. Thanks for the advice, I was planning to use the total boat bilge epoxy.  Sounds like I'm not done grinding yet!

If you haven't run across it, electrical wire size is usually a problem in the older boats, Correct Craft was a bit light with the gauge.  I've run larger positive and negative wires from the dash to the engine (Negative) and solenoid (positive) and completely rewired the dash.  There's a post here somewhere describing the work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1980SN2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2023 at 3:36pm
I am as new to boat repair as it gets but I recently ground down my bilge all the way to raw fiberglass on my 1980 SN to put on new Total Boat Bilge Epoxy. I tried and tried and tried to just get the spots that were lifting up and cracking but the more I ground the more I found so eventually just took it all down to raw fiberglass. I figured if I am this far and I really don't want to have to do this again if the new Bilge Epoxy starts to lift up because of the old gel coat was cracking and peeling. Also if you only do some it will definitely be very visible, atleast with the Total Boat Bilge epoxy because it shows every minor blemish underneath. This part of my repairs generated the most dust though. Confused Just thought I'd throw that out there.

P.S. Thank you for posting your stringer job here. I've only had my boat for about 6 months and have done a ton of work to it but I will inevitablly have to tackle the stringer job someday and these threads are a great resource. I haven't posted much at all but but this site and its users have already been invaluable to me with the knowledge and advice they freely share. Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-24-2022 at 12:52pm
Hull grinding is (hopefully) done. Currently I'm gluing up the stringers using the vacuum method I described earlier.  Had some learning curve on that but it's working nicely, really does squish the three layers together well. Very easy to line things up once the stringer is in the bag before turning on the vacuum pump.  Both secondary stringers are glued up and once my daughter wakes up, we will glue up the first of the primary stringers..

I'm coating one side of the Coosa with a flat spreader, basically just wetting in the Coosa.  Epoxy on the mating piece of Coosa gets spread with a fine notched trowel.   Epoxy is squeezing out of all joints so i'm getting a good coat but only a small amount comes out so sanding off the excess only takes 10 minutes or so.

Once the picture gremlin is slain, I will post some pictures showing the operation.  It's 15 degrees outside so if I feel really motivated in a bit I will heat up the pylon and see if I can twist it off the very cold steel base.

Ahh, daughter just walked in and delegated this glue up to her brother. He objected by explaining she had already developed the necessary skills but she demanded he expand his horizons to help him with future work.  Guess I am teaching her some people management techniques after all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-12-2022 at 7:48pm

Removed the screws from the exhaust nipples and tried to tap them out with a hammer and block of wood but nothing moved.  I will try a heat gun next and see how things go.  Probably have another go at removing the pylon at the same time, working around it is a pain.

 

Grinding is mostly done but I’m sure there will be some touch up work once I get to installing the stringers and start concentrating on exactly how the fiberglass matts are going to lay.  I’m working up the layup schedule now using info from other stringer rebuilds.  Once I’ve got the schedule finalized, I will post it for comments.

 

Coosa Board has been delivered and I’ve set up an efficient cutting plan, won’t be much left after I’ve installed the stringers and deck. The secondary stringers where ¾” x 12’ and the mains where 1½” x 13’ so I’m going to lay up the secondaries out of three pieces of ¼” Coosa and the mains out of three pieces of ½”.  

 

Per some information from online, I will use a slightly thickened paste of resin to glue the Coosa together.  I’m going to use a vacuum bag technique to press the three layers of Coosa together for the stringers when I glue them up.  I have a vacuum pump that I picked up somewhere along the line so the rest of the vacuum bag setup only cost about $50 in fittings.  Sometimes we use HEPA negative air machines on our jobs, which require venting to outside the construction area so I have 6 mill plastic disposable ducting that comes flat in a 100’ roll.  Seems perfect for a vacuum bag to slide the stringers into.  Just cut the length I need, install the little hose fitting, slide the stringer in, seal the ends, suck out the air and squish.  What could possibly go wrong!

 

Once the Coosa stringers are glued up, I will scribe them to fit the hull and then layout and cut the various notches before installation.  The deck will be ½” Coosa with a fiberglass matt on the backside and a seal coat of resin on the topside


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-04-2022 at 7:05pm
Should just tap out- don't hurry. Little heat from a heat gun will help too. You might have to replace those wood blocks anyway including the lift ring block and the rudder block,they use the same pre rotted wood that were deemed not good enough for stringers Wink
As to white bilge paint think about that. I just painted one with Interlux white,it shows everything. My cooling system U dripped,it left a rust that really stood out. Personally IMHO a off white or a grey like the newer boats might be best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-04-2022 at 4:10pm
It would simplify the grinding and glassing at the transom if I can get the two exhaust nipples out.  I'm sure others have removed them.  Can I just pull the screws and tap them out with a hammer and a block of wood or does it get complicated?  
Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-04-2022 at 11:32am
Thanks, gloss had me worried, shows all the flaws.  I will probably go with satin.

Thoughts on how much of the gray and white pebble finish should I remove in the bilge?  I need a solid bit for the stringer glass and i'm planning to coat the bilge with a white epoxy bilge coating when I finally get that far.  The old pebble finish is stuck on hard, must be some type of epoxy.  i'm leaning toward heavier removal close to the stringers and leaving more further inside the bilge but making sure all of it has it's surface sanded/ground to get a good bite for the new coatings.  Along the lines of what shows in the picture, still have work to do around the rudder post and the bolts..  Thanks.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCH20SKIER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-01-2022 at 1:28pm
I had my windshield powered coated and am very pleased - for me satin was the choice.
Be prepared for some sanding and finessing the parts and pieces back together following coating and the oven bake.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2022 at 3:43pm
For the floor you could consider using the lighter density 3/4 coosa as a core and just epoxy some mat to both sides. it gets very rigid once the glass is there on the outside to take the brunt of the compressive and tensile forces. 

and still wouldn't foam-fill it. neither my supreme nor response are foam filled, and they are the quietest boats in the local fleet of my hommes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2022 at 12:42pm
Got the last bit of main stringers out with a router and a half inch bit, used a guide to keep the bit in the middle of the stringer and cut down ALMOST to the hull (was very careful about that!).  Then I was able to split one size of the stringer off in small pieces and pop the other side out in large lengths, so not as difficult or time consuming as I expected.

Pulled the windshield and knocked it down into it's component parts, will be sending the aluminum out to a local powder coat company for a new black finish.  Trying to decide between a satin, semi or gloss sheen, any thoughts?

I'm now into the apparently never ending grinding stage to prep the hull for fiberglass.  I will post a picture once it looks like something has actually changed.

Got pricing on Coosa board from a local supplier for the stringers.  After laying things out, I will need 2 sheets of 1/4" for the secondaries and 2 sheets of 1/2" for the primaries in order to laminate up (3 layers wide) to get the lengths and widths I need.  OMG that stuff is expensive.  Still planning to go that way, just had to take a deep breath and adjust to the cost before I actually order it after getting the quote.

The honeycomb board for the flooring is not available locally but some research on line says that the 26 lb Coosa board would work well for the floor but the 20 lb is too flexible.  I will be going over 2 lb foam and am now planning to use 1/2" 26 lb Coosa. Anyone have a thickness recommendation?  Only want to buy this stuff once!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blammie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2022 at 3:17pm
You posts are well timed for me. I'm hoping you'll post more pictures. I'm just starting on my '68 Barracuda. I'll be interested to see your progress as you lay stringers back in. This is the part of the job that has me most worried. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2022 at 9:43am
Enjoying this thread. Keep up the good work! Think about using thickened epoxy to bed the stringers instead of 3M caulk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uk1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-24-2022 at 9:29am

I have played around with foam in the hull... if you go with foam (closed cell type) try to keep the hard skin which forms on the outside of the foam as its less likely to soak up moisture.

 

I went with lining the area with DPC (Damp Proof Course Polythene) leaving plenty running over the sides to fold over the top to seal up once set.

After setting and sealing you can the lift the foam-covered blocks and any puckering of the DPC can be shrunk using a hot air gun, I went with a second covering of DPC and shrunk it over the first with the hot air gun and the blocks still fit back in the hull, that up to you.

 

The older hulls do let water through only by a very small amount, but over time/years it’s a problem, once you have finished the stringer work clean back the hull of all old coatings

and tank it all in epoxy resin 2 coats the second before the first is fully dry.

 

Moisture will always be in the hull just by temp changes its just keeping as low as you can.

 

Thanks for saving an old SN and keep the pictures coming good luck. roger. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-23-2022 at 1:37pm
Ok, no noodles.  After reading lots of posts, foam is back in the project.  Sound dampening was a large driver in my decision.  Since I'm planning to use a composite board for the floor I don't need the foam for any significant support so 2 lbs foam should be fine and gives minimal weight gain.  

Various posts discussed concerns about trapping water somewhere under/around the foam which I was worried about as well.  In construction we use a plastic drainage board to eliminate hydraulic pressure against below grade walls, should work here to allow water to drain from under the foam.  See the picture below, install dimple side down, pour the foam on top, put drain holes through the base of the stringers into the bilge.  Still thinking this through, the drainage board could just move the trapped water up between the foam and drainage board.  Also seems like there is just no place for water to be trapped in a fully foamed compartment...


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