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Stringer Replacement 86 Silver Nautique.

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andrewmarani View Drop Down
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    Posted: December-16-2023 at 4:19pm
Water lays under the battery box and in front of the pylon.  It's blocked by a hump in the hull at the pylon.  Always bugged me.  In this picture you can see i've filled that area in with epoxy mixed with a fairing compound so that any water that does make it up there will run back to the drain hole.  The boat is currently level, so I filled the area in front of the pylon with water till it started running over the hump at the pylon.  I marked the outside edges of the puddle, dried the area and then filled with to that line with epoxy.  I put the epoxy in roughly a 1/4" thick at a time.  I checked ahead of time to make sure this infill didn't interfere with the underside of the battery box, turns out there was plenty of space.  

Got some leaves laying in there in the picture but it actually has a pretty smooth finish.  Trick is to mix the epoxy slowly, minimizing bubbles.  You will still get some but waving a propane torch, very quickly, over the wet epoxy pops them.  Have to do that multiple times as the epoxy sets because they drift up to the top pretty slowly.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-16-2023 at 4:04pm
I wanted something to move out any moisture that made it's way into the foamed areas.  I'm using a piece of cotton rope, basically clothes line that you can buy at a hardware store to wick any moisture out to the holes I left in the stringers. From there it can drip into the bilge.  To hold the rope in place when I pour in the foam, I put dabs of thickened epoxy where the rope is and pushed the rope into it.  

2/18/24 edit, this was a fail.  The dabs of epoxy soak in and seal the cotton.  The foam fill seems to do the same thing.  I had some water laying against the rope after a rain and it did NOT soak downhill and drip into the lower stringer area. I'm ignoring this issue and moving on!

When I installed the secondary stringers, I fitted some thin wall plastic pipe through them to leave drainage holes.  This was a big pain to make, fit and glass over.  On the primary stringers I just cut a 1" hole in the stringer, glassed over it and cut it out with a dremel afterwards, much easier, faster and did a better job.  I ended up chopping up the plastic pipe when I put the wicking rope in.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-16-2023 at 3:57pm
Project slowed down a lot while I got a partial knee replacement but still managed to move some stuff forward.  At this point, I'm ready to install the smaller sections of flooring, the pieces just to either side of the motor.  Figured I should start small.  tomorrow I will epoxy them down to the stringers and sides of the hull.  I plan to foam under them before moving on so I can see how the foaming works.

I used scrap 1/4" Coosa at the floor joint locations to reinforce the seam between two pieces of Coosa.  You can see them in the two photos.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1980SN2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-13-2023 at 5:15pm
Very nice work. Great attention to detail. Thank you for sharing the process!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uk1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-03-2023 at 5:58pm
This was all along time ago and coosa was not available in the uk ..so used 8x4x1/4 fibreglass sheet cut and epoxied down, 
Things are much better now with all the wind turbines built here now much more available to play with.

Good luck with the build keep the updates coming

Roger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-03-2023 at 4:26pm
Are you putting down plywood flooring or are you building up the floor by putting multiple layers of fiberglass cloth right on the foam or I guess on the DPC?

If plywood, are you glueing or somehow sticking the plywood to the DPC?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uk1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-03-2023 at 1:48pm
I used 18mm Mdf cover boards as I have lots of it .. the white plastic is correx I stuck to the under side of cover boards as a spacer to give room when removed to fold the DPC over the top of the foam to enclose it … as I said if you use.a heat gun it’s not needed .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-03-2023 at 1:00pm
so, smooth ply with plastic wrap on them and holes in the ply to pour the foam through.  I see the weights and clamps to hold the boards down as the foam expands.

I see the yellow foam at the holes and where it puffed out around the edges.  Is the white material a flooring that you held down with the plywood?  

Like the giant air ducts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uk1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-03-2023 at 12:37pm
More pictures I'm a bit rusty on posting..




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uk1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-03-2023 at 12:32pm
Did something similar but wrapped the foam in DPC plastic sheeting, left plenty above, just lift out the foam section.. fold over and get the DPC firm as you can with tape, then go over it with a heat gun to shrink it tight. 
I put a plastic packer on top before foaming to give room to fold over, I think its not needed if you heat gun it, I used pallet stretch wrap over my blanking boards with holes in. 

Have fun and do what work for you ..Smile  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-03-2023 at 9:59am
Well, i'm long past that point.  Coosa floor is basically cut and fitted for the entire boat.  Plus my abilities to fiberglass in a flat floor over the foam are probably not up to that level of finish, not without a lot of fairing compound and sanding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-03-2023 at 9:44am
Why put a Coosa floor over foam cavities? Seems a waste. Just glass over the foam like the factory did. Save the coosa for the spans over the bilge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-03-2023 at 9:34am
Getting close to foam time so I've been reviewing posts on foaming the hull.  I could start foaming from secondary stringer to the side of the boat now in most of the boat.  I will be using 2 lbs foam from US Composites.

The idea of drilling holes in the Coosa floor and pouring in foam makes me nervous because I cannot tell if i've foamed the entire cavity.  Plus I'm putting a bunch of holes in the new Coosa floor that I have to patch.  However, it does seem the easiest solution.

One way to insure a full cavity would be to fill cavities before the floor goes down and then shave the foam flush with the top of the stringers.  I would then use a large notch troll to spread thickened epoxy on the foam and set the floor on top with some sand bags to weight it down and let the epoxy set up.  I expect it would be hard to shave down the foam flat and it would take a lot of epoxy to bond the floor to the foam.

Another way would go insure a full cavity is to pour the foam into the cavity, stretch some plastic tight over the stringers and set the floor panel on top with some weight on the floor panel.  Let the foam expand to the underside of the floor panel/plastic and harden.  Take up the floor and peel off the plastic.  If I do it neatly I should have a smooth flat foam finish, then epoxy the floor down as as noted above.

Has anyone done anything other than the holes through the floor method?  Any thoughts on the other two methods I've outlined above?

Can someone who's foamed a 1986 Nautique or similar boat give me an idea of the quantity they used?  I will calculate it out but that's going to be a rough number considering the curving shape and differing depths involved.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-21-2023 at 4:26pm

This is the Coosa Board cut plan.  Per this plan you need two ¼” x 4x8 sheets and four ½” x 4x8 sheets.  All the long skinny pieces are for the stringers.  The stringer pieces on the ¼” board are for the secondary stringers and they are 6” wide x 8’ or 6’ or 4’.  The stringer pieces on the ½” boards are the main stringers and they are 8” wide x 8’ or 5’ or 2’-6”.

 

The rest is pretty obvious, the only funky thing is I made the floor piece up under the bow by laminating two ¼” pieces together, otherwise you would need to buy another sheet to finish up.  If you are careful in your layout and cutting there will be plenty of small scraps left to make up the extra pieces next to the exhaust hoses, the little shelf on either side of the engine and the various other odds and ends, like the two roughly 11” x 14” pieces on either side of the gas tank.  


Dotted lines on the one piece are the cut out for the removable panel behind the engine. I would wait to cut that out till the final fitting of the floor pieces after everything under the floor is installed.  Side note: since the Coosa board is only a 1/2" thick, I added a 1" tall x 1/2" thick piece of scrap to the Coosa board that makes up the non-stringer side of the exhaust hose space.  I put it on the outboard side, the side closer to the secondary stringer. So the top of that piece is now 1" wide to give more landing space for the removable panel.  You can see it in one of my other pictures.  



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-21-2023 at 3:34pm

This is the floor layout plan using 4x8 sheets of Coosa or any 4x8 sheet material.  You can ignore the numbers at the top of the page, that’s just me trying to see how the side of the boat curves.  I templated the curve using a piece of heavy cardboard set to a line running down the center of the boat, marking, trimming with scissors, remarking and trimming till it fit neatly to the curve while the other edge of the cardboard stayed parallel to the boat center line.   The faint lines running parallel to the boat are the stringers.  Next post will show the cut schedule for the 4x8 sheets.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-21-2023 at 3:21pm

This is the stringer layout for my boat.  The old stringers where likely cut from a standard pattern but I’m not sure how tight they followed the pattern.  I expect each boat varies a little based on what I’ve seen on this boat.  Best if you use your stringers to layout your new stringers.  But if you can’t use your stringers, this should get you pretty close for boats like mine.

 

Top of the page is a plan view (looking down) of the secondary stringer, the space for the exhaust hose and the top of the main stringer.  The circles are bolt holes in the aluminum engine frame.

 

Below that is a side view of the stringer showing the dips, their locations and depths.  The gas tank is shown at + ½” because the floor is a ½” thick and the two aluminum angles under the tank sit basically flush with the top of the floor, making the bottom of the gas tank maybe a ¼” above the floor.  0” elevation is the underside of the floor.  Everything is measured from the transom of the boat in line with the thing you are laying out, keeping in mind that the main stringer hits the transom is a bit further aft than the secondary stringer because of the curve in the transom.

 

At the bottom of the page is a plan view of the secondary and main stringers showing the lamination schedule.  As you will see in a following post, the secondary stringer is made up of ¼” Coosa laminated together to get to ¾” thickness and the main stringer is made up of ½” Coosa to get to 1 ½” thickness.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2023 at 7:04pm
Since i'm closing in on foaming the floor I am also now in need of the hose that gets buried in foam under the front floor.  Never liked the cheap plastic stuff installed originally in the boat.  Spent some time on the site looking for an answer and McMaster Carr turned up a couple of times but didn't like what I found and it was expensive.  Finally turned up the stuff below at Fisheries Supply.  https://www.fisheriessupply.com/trident-marine-trident-polyduct-hvac-duct/481-3000  Still expensive at $6.83 a foot but looks nice and is very flexible. 3" Trident Marine Polyduct HVAC Duct.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2023 at 6:07pm
And this is where i'm at as of Sunday.  The little narrow strips are installed and filleted into place. Next is trimming the floor to the engine hole.  Then spending some time laying out and making the vertical closers that sit on the pieces I just installed and rise to the underside of the coosa floor. The flooring in the picture is just sitting there loose. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2023 at 6:00pm
This shows the little supports for that lowered section of floor on either side of the engine.  I'm not tabbing them in, just laying down a nice fillet on all sides. The narrow pieces laying on the stringers go on top of the supports.  The Coosa leaning against the hull are the pieces of floor next to the engine, fitted to the hull but still need to adjust for the engine hole.  

I'm mostly only able to put in an hour here and there right now so time is a factor.  I bought more of the Totalboat Thixo, this time in the double tube, which gives a lot more epoxy for the price.  Still expensive at $45 a double tube but I had the special gun already and now I can just put a new nozzle on the tube and epoxy without having to spend time mixing stuff and then clean up.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2023 at 5:51pm
The Coosa floor is mostly cut and fitted.  I still have to make the bow piece and do some fitting around the engine hole.  This shows the cut out for the battery box.  To get the box edges to sit flush with the floor I dished out the Coosa using a Mikita belt sander that takes a 1" belt.  Wish I had bought that machine earlier, makes controlled removal and cleanup of fiberglass easy.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2023 at 5:46pm
Next up, you can see the ledger I glued to the sides of the boat to catch the edges of the floor.  Had plenty of thin Coosa scraps to make up the ledgers.  Used some thin flexible wood to hold the ledger in place while the epoxy tightened up.  To locate the ledger I used a laser level to draw a black marker line around the hull a 1/2" below where the top of the floor will be and checked to make sure that matched the top of the new stringers.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2023 at 5:06pm
Right main stringer glassed in.  you can see all the elevation changes in the left stringer.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2023 at 5:05pm
The top of the main stringer has lots of dips in it.  this shows the cuts in the glass to get it to lay into the ups and downs.  Mostly worked, i'm sure an expert fiberglass dude has some better way of doing this!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2023 at 4:57pm
Didn't really realize how long it's been since I posted on this.  Life's been doing it's thing: went on vacation out of the country, twice. Had a neck operation, all good, plus I'm 3/16" taller now.  I have managed to keep going on the boat, closing in on the need to foam the interior.  Posting a series of pictures of the progress.

This shows the rolls of fiberglass ready for the stringers, folded in half to create a crease to make it easier to fit, four for each side.  4" wide first (2" on floor, 2" on stringer) then 6" wide, then 8".  The wides rolls are the pieces that fold down over the top, 8" again but only needed four.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2023 at 10:51pm
Looking good Andrew!Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2023 at 8:24pm
Last picture for now, showing the front floor sitting in place for fitting check.  You can't really see it in the earlier stringer picture but i've notched the stringers down at each floor joint location so I can run a piece of 3" wide Coosa under the seam between two pieces of flooring to tie the two pieces together when I epoxy them down.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2023 at 8:16pm
So take a closer look at the upper side of the floor where the drivers seat base is drawn in.  See that short diagonal line on the corner that will be next to the side of the boat?  DO NOT run a screw through the drivers seat base in that location!  Why, you ask?  Well, the hull of the boat is right there on the other side of the floor and people have been know to screw through to the outside of the boat, causing a leak that puzzled them for months until they cut their hand feeling along the bottom of the boat looking for cracks.  

That's also why the reinforcing on the underside of the floor is clipped off in that area.

Moving on.  Does anyone know where to buy a new battery box?  Mine is in reasonable shape except for the top flange, which is wavy as hell.  It's going to be very hard getting that thing to sit flat on the floor and take carpet neatly.  Rather buy a new one if I can.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2023 at 8:00pm
Coosa is not a great screw holding material so I'm using T nuts to hold down the drivers seat, the observers seat, the hinges for the engine cover and the hinges for the back seat.  You can see the layout of the seats on the upper side of the front section of flooring and you can see the T nuts and the doubled up coosa on the underside.  I've also applied a layer of glass to the underside as reinforcing.  I still need to cut out the hole for the battery box.  Many thanks to va-river-tique for those dimensions, major help.



I seemed to be pulling the observers seat support out on a regular basis to crawl up under the front for one reason or another.  In the earlier floor I installed two machine thread inserts into the plywood floor and used two 3/8" bolts inside the base (with an added wire grab kind of thing that allowed me to remove them by hand) to secure the base to the floor.  Same sort of operation now with the Coosa, only i've got T nuts in the Coosa to run the bolts into. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2023 at 7:48pm

Been a while since I posted on this, life sometimes gets in the way of the best of plans.  

I glassed in the secondary stringers a month ago or so.  I cut and fitted most of the 1/2" coosa for the floor.  This weekend I epoxied in the short pieces of stringer that sit next to the mufflers.  The coosa is only a 1/2" thick and that didn't seem wide enough for a location that supports both a fixed section of floor and the removable panel next to it so I epoxied another piece of 1/2" about 1 1/2" tall against the short stringer piece to widen it to 1", You can see the clamps holding the second piece in place in a picture.  You can't see it in the picture but I cut a 45 on the down edge of that added piece so the glass will wrap down it easily.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewmarani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2023 at 4:32pm
If I hadn't used the vacuum set up, I would have used a combination of stainless deck screws and clamps.  I was originally worried about not having enough time to epoxy all three layers in one move but my basement was about 60 degrees and I had lots of time once the material was spread thin on the Coosa to adjust the pieces and set up the vacuum rig.  So I figure you should have plenty of time to lay up three pieces and run screws into them. Make sure you put epoxy on both mating surfaces.  I wet one out with a smooth spreader and then spread epoxy on the other with a fine notched spreader.  I put silica adhesive filler in the epoxy to thicken it some.

I've run screws into the Coosa and they take up fine but are easy to over torque and strip out.  I would glue up all three layers, then clamp a section tight, run some screws into that section to hold it tight, then move the clamps to the next section and repeat. An alternate would be to set the three layers on a long 2x8 and screw right through the Coosa into the 2x8, once it's set up, pull the screws and your good to go.

On the 86', the engine mounts bolt to the aluminum frame that sits on the stringers so no worries about them tearing out.  I am NOT planning to run lags down through the frame into the Coosa (like it was originally), instead I plan to through bolt the frame to the stringers from the side.  I would not trust heavy uplift loads to a wood type screw in the Coosa.

If you don't have the aluminum frame to support the engine mounts, I would cut some holes or a slot down near the bottom of the stringer, put a block of aluminum in there as a load spreader and through bolt down from the engine mount, thorough the stringer, through aluminum block and put a nut and lock washer on it from underneath.
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