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351 gas treatment

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GeoB View Drop Down
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    Posted: August-02-2021 at 9:06pm
I drive a SMART car and a user forum strongly suggested the use of Sea Foam gas treatment.

I will have to say that the engine smoothed out and I have had no problems for 8 years.

What are the thoughts of this treatment in my newly acquired 1985 SN 2001, Ford 351?

My goal would be to just clean gunk out and lube the valves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-02-2021 at 11:12pm
This is a tough crowd and I doubt you will get much positive feedback on most types of additives.

That said...I have been known to use additives.  My personal experience has been very good with the Lucas Fuel Treatment.  I did a 3,000 mile experiment one year on a family vacation.  We had a Chev Suburban and we went from Houston to St. Louis area to Salt Lake City and back to Houston.  On the outbound leg of the trip, I ran regular pump gasoline, 87 octane.  On the return trip, I ran the same regular 87 octane fuel but I added the Lucas Fuel Treatment at every fill-up.  The suburban averaged between 1.5 to 2 mpg better with the Lucas.  Was it a perfect scientific test with controlled environment?  No.  But I'm convinced.  The Chev just ran better with the Lucas.  Period.

I also really like the Klotz products.  I have used Klotz synthetic 2-stroke oil in my chainsaws for many years.  When ethanol blended fuels started showing up, I switched to non-ethanol pump-gas.  The problem is that locally I can only get 88 octane non-ethanol fuel that doesn't cost $2 more per gallon.  I started using the Klotz Octane Booster in my ethanol-free fuel for small engines -- particularly for the chainsaws.  The Klotz is amazing stuff.  I also run ethanol-free gas in my Ski Nautique with Klotz Octane Booster added to the boat fuel.

I tried the Sea Foam a couple of times as an engine carbon remover, but the results I got were so-so and inconclusive.  

My $0.02

JQ

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 7:18am
Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

  My personal experience has been very good with the Lucas Fuel Treatment.  I did a 3,000 mile experiment one year on a family vacation.  We had a Chev Suburban and we went from Houston to St. Louis area to Salt Lake City and back to Houston.  On the outbound leg of the trip, I ran regular pump gasoline, 87 octane.  On the return trip, I ran the same regular 87 octane fuel but I added the Lucas Fuel Treatment at every fill-up.  The suburban averaged between 1.5 to 2 mpg better with the Lucas.   

My $0.02

JQ


JQ,
Speaking of cents, did the mileage gained pay for the cost of the Lucas? Big smile


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GeoB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeoB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 8:49am
YouTube has a couple great videos of testing using Lucas and SeaFoam on an old Ford pickup over a couple of years.

The results are impressive.

Search Seafoam.
Geo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 5:05pm
George, is the boat running well now?  If so, I'd run sta-bil 360 or similar in the gas, non-ethanol fuel if available in your area.  As for additives, I've used them, and though there are nay-sayers I don't believe Seafoam could do any harm, so go for it.

Far more impactful for the health of the engine would be to make sure you run a motor oil with high zinc levels in the 351, it needs it.

Congrats on the new boat and welcome to the forum!
'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Speaking of cents, did the mileage gained pay for the cost of the Lucas? Big smile

The Lucas cost is $30/gallon.  2 oz. Lucas for every 10 gallons of fuel, or $0.50 for 10 gallons of  gas.  The Chevy’s tank held 44 gallons. A complete fill-up cost $2.10 in Lucas.  That $2.10 returned 65 additional miles of travel or just over 4 gallons additional fuel.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeoB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 5:42pm
She was running pretty well for a boat that had sat on the bunkers for 4 years.

That changed the second week or 8 hours on the clock. Spitter, stalls then surges and twice flat out dead in the water.
The dash volt Meter was all over the scales.

New belts solved the stretched belt issue and put the adjustment nuts mid range again.

My volt meter and I found 4 loose connections in the ignition and start circuits.

All has become stable and I now have another 10 hours on her. Feels good and I’m sure I can finish out the season and do a full tuneup, my style, this winter.

Today I replaced a very old oil filter. I do not think it has been changed in 8 years. I also drained out a quart of oil as she was real high on the dip stick.

The crank oil smelled good and was not contaminated. I spoke to the marina that serviced it before putting it in the water. The owner did not service but a HS kid did. I asked him about the oil and filter. He said he was told that the filter and oil was ok, so he topped it off with 2 Quarts.

As to the electrical problems, he did not notice any. I asked about the battery, and he told me that he could not find the cleaner and wrench, so he hand tightened the posts with a twist of his fingers.

I’ll be doing my own servicing from here on out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rebel skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 5:56pm
I would start over and do a proper oil change.  Our dip sticks are not great about telling us the level.  Unless you have a great sense of how much oil is in the new oil filter to subtract from 5 quarts, I would remove and dump and then get the proper 5 quarts in the boat.  

It is close enough to winter to leave that oil in and run next season.  
Hotty Toddy lets go skiing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 6:42pm
Another positive vote for Lucas. For me it’s like Frank’s Hot Sauce, I use that $hit in everything, boat, diesel car and truck, snowmobiles, chain saws, weed wacker, John Deere tractor and mower. (get the drift here EVERYTHING) 
I use ethanol fuel in everything (but the diesels Big smile) never an issue. My saws are in the shed with last years gas in them and come fall I’ll just dump out what’s in the tank add fresh with Lucas and start cutting same with the lawn equipment in the spring. That stuff works!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

Another positive vote for Lucas. For me it’s like Frank’s Hot Sauce, I use that $hit in everything

Is that Frank's hot sauce you use in everything?

I'm curious how 2 stroke exhaust smells with Frank's hot sauce in the gas  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 6:59pm
Like baked cayenne peppers LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2021 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

Like baked cayenne  peppers LOL

Now that's good $hit Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DVskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-04-2021 at 11:56am
I’ve been using non ethanol gas in my Nautique since the 1997 SN, now have a 2004 SN 196. No problems, I use a can of Sea Foam annually as was recommended by the Correct Craft dealer. A modest investment. Note I have not changed plugs, distributor cap, or plug wires on the 2004 yet. Boat runs great with 482 hours. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD ski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-06-2021 at 12:14pm
So the issue of fuel is brought up with treatments and varying favorite brands and yes some are more effective than others. But why the treatments are needed is just barely touched. Like other things in life human and non human it is easier to see the problems showing up faster and more sever at the extreme ends of the spectrum. I ended up doing quite a bit of research after having my Husquarna weed eaters, Honda lawn mower and generator not idle get stuck valves and repair bills. 

The shop told me it is the gas I am using that is old with moisture and varnishing up. I was told that 75% of his business is related to fuel related issues. I discussed that I always put Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer in my gas cans and it is rotated less than every six months. The mechanic cringed and said I don't know if that helps and I hear that story a lot and I repair a lot. He described that the smaller the carburetor orifices are the easier they are to plug up. So these issues tend not to show up in larger motors unless real old ethanol fuel has sat in your carb. My 8 hp snow blower never seems to have the fuel related issues that the smaller motors have and my cars and boat never have the problems running the same fuel.

I asked what the solution was and I was told to go to my local fuel supply shop (home heating oil, propane)  dealer probably not a gas station and purchase non-ethanol clear fuel 91 octane is preferred in air coold motors. Yes, it cost a little more but the repair bills go away and down time dries up. I did not know if this information was accurate so I did research and found out his advice was accurate. Ethanol in low percentages is just filler in gas. Yes, ethanol is used as a fuel and has about 1/3  less BTU than the same amount of gas. Ethanol likes to absorb moisture from the environment. This is not a good thing in the marine environment. If you live in a humid environment or leave your boat on the water you will be getting moisture in your fuel unless you burn through your fuel rapidly. So, I do run Sta-Bil Marine in my boat with every fill up and my boat is garaged. Yes there is probably better products but availability in my area is limited.

Octane is another issue that is added to gas to eliminate pre-detonation related to compression. Most of our stock motored boats have a 8.7 to 1 compression ratio.(low compression) and 87 octane works fine even at sea level. A few stock older boats and the newer high HP motors have higher compression such as GM 6.2 have over 11 to 1 compression. Thus needing higher octane fuel to stop pre-detonation in the non computer controlled motors. With the high compression computer controlled motors running lower than recommend usually 91 octane causes the motor to retard the timing to reduce pre-detonation knock and will result in a decrease in power although it seems to run fine just down on power. Some areas only have ethanol fuel like my area. I did not quote and specific studies but have done the research and you can do your on research if you choose.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeoB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-06-2021 at 4:42pm
Interesting to read.

I’ll look for a source and try this in my lawn mower and generators first.

If, I can source the fuel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-06-2021 at 5:00pm
I've never had any problems with ethanol in anything I own. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD ski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-06-2021 at 6:40pm
Oh, and yes high zinc oil for the old 351 as mentioned earlier of your favorite brand. High zinc oil is becoming harder to find but it is available. Castrol GTX that has been around for decades still has the same looking label but the zinc content is not the same as days of old. Castrol now has a new label called Castrol GTX Classic and that is their high zinc content oil. I had seen the information for the Castrol GTX Classic on their web page but had not seen it in a store until yesterday. And of course there are other brands and you can look up the discussions about oil on this site and many others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeoB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-06-2021 at 8:35pm
Is there a high zinc synthetic oil?

Is Mobil 1 high zinc?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-06-2021 at 8:57pm
Originally posted by GeoB GeoB wrote:

Is there a high zinc synthetic oil?

Is Mobil 1 high zinc?





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-06-2021 at 9:31pm
High ZDDP synthetic oils:

Royal Purple HPS
Valvoline VR-1 Full Synthetic
Mobil 1
Red Line
Lucas 20W-50 synthetic

I usually run the Royal Purple or VR-1 synthetic.

JQ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD ski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-06-2021 at 10:02pm
I use Valvoline VR-1 Racing non-synthetic 40 W. The straight 40 W is recommended in the manual and that is what my boat had in it when I purchased it with 124 hr. on it. I like to keep oil weights the same and even brands but that is not always possible. I order the VR-1 from my local parts store or Summit Racing.

My experience and also friends of mine is when you put synthetic oil in an old motor you will see weeping through the gaskets. Not leaking like drips but weeping looking like damp fluid through all gaskets designed to keep oil in. Just something to pay attention to if you choose to run a synthetic.
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