1999 Longhorn Nautique Restoration Thread

This looks great. I always thought stroking the motor and making it breath better was the way to go, given the requirement to remain stock-appearing. Will the restriction on power now be the exhaust?

Damn!  Nice looking work, Horns.  Well done.

Yes. Nice to see the Longhorns back

Also, engine rebuild 2.0 is complete. As shown in previous posts, the damage was terrible but I found a shop to re-rebuild this engine but this time with pride and attention to detail. Now the engine is back home and I prepping it for a nice fat black glossy paint job. Then I will rewire everything and take it back to the dyno.

I also posted about my desire to reinstall the original GT40 Intake. Despite the loss of power above 3500 rpm with the original intake, moving to something more exotic that made more power just didn't feel right. This boat needs to maintain originality with subtle improvements not drastic changes.

I started researching the GT40 intake and found the mustang guys have had great success porting this intake and making incredible power. It just takes a lot of work and the knowledge of where to grind and where not to. I researched and came across Larry Ordonio of Precision Porting Services. He was very familiar with this intake. I explained flow issues and we went over the dyno numbers. He felt confident he could make this flow more thane enough for 408 cubic inches. After about a month, Larry transformed the upper and lower manifold. He ported and streamlined each runner. He also opened up the mouth to fit an 80 mm throttle body. This thing should flow like crazy. I then had the upper manifold powder coated by Jose at Diamond Powder Coating. They've done all of my powder coat work including the windshield and did phenomenal job as always! Excited to have the engine back on the dyno in the next month. Can’t recommend Larry and Jose enough, great guys to do business with.

MrMcD wrote: Best of luck moving forward, I hope it does not tarnish the excitement and great work you are doing to restore this family treasure. The shop that messed up your engine does a lot to ruin the rebuilding industry. There are guys out there that work hard and deliver what they charge for. Your guy was a schmuck.

Thank you. It really pissed me off in the beginning but I’ve accepted what happened. Luckily it can all be fixed. My excitement for the end result has not been affected at all. Looking forward to sharing progress!

Thank you for the detailed reply. Lots of pictures have been taken during the disassembly by the new shop. These were what I snapped when I stopped by this weekend. It’s all a serious cluster.

MrMcD wrote: Quick observation based on your photos. The cylinders were never honed or they failed to take out enough material with the hone they did.   Those are boring bar marks in the cylinder in your photos. They should have been 100% removed by a proper hone.   Shops leave about .002-.003 in the cylinder after boring to allow for a proper hone.   A proper hone removes the boring bar marks and leaves a proper cylinder finish that your rings will seat well on. Maybe someone just forgot to hone or thought it was done, either way, very poor work on your engine. Take all 8 of your 2nd ring Piston rings.   Stack them up and take a picture from the side. You want to show the side of the ring where it rubs on the cylinder wall. I will guarantee your rings from that engine even with very low run time are now sanded flat and will show a chrome like finish top to bottom on all 8 rings. The rough cylinder sanded those rings. The face of the second ring is made of cast iron, it is sloped, like a " \ " This \ shape touched the cylinder wall and is designed to help scrape oil off the cylinder wall or meter the oil so the top ring gets oiled but not too much. It helps the top ring and third ring do their job.   In a low mile or hour engine when they are torn down with a proper cylinder hone the 2nd ring will show a silver line that only takes up maybe 10% of the \ shape where it is actually wearing/touching on the cylinder wall.   At 100,000 miles on a good cylinder wall this \ shape touching the cylinder wall may be worn 40-50% where it touches the cylinder wall so 40% will show silver and the remaining part of the ring will still be black finish just like when it was new because it has not ever touched the cylinder wall.   It has broken in and shows some wear but is operating normally. The second ring will document your damage and lack of a good cylinder finish. You can also document that the shop was the only one to actually run your engine so they are 100% responsible for the damages. They built it, they damaged it. Top rings will also show damage and they should be photographed with all 8 stacked but you will learn lots more from the 2nd ring, moly is tough and will hide a lot of damage or sometimes it just chips away and again you don't learn as much. I don't know what your lawyer is advising but having worked in the Engine Re Manufacturing industry for nearly 30 years I will share that courts only look at documented damage.   So go ahead and have your engine built while keeping great documentation of what was found and what your costs are to fix it. Your engine bearings do not actually look that bad, the scratches you see are mostly in the Tin Plate on the bearings, tin plate is a final coating that is there to help break in the engine and protect the part while it is shelved before they go in an engine.   The tin plate coating is only 20/1,000.000 of an inch thick so most of the scratches showing are not anything to worry about but they do look bad.   The thrust bearing does show deeper scratches that are in the copper layer of the bearing,   Those were larger particles that went through your oiling system and reached the bearings.   Your Cylinder finish is the cause of your failure.   I bet they plumb forgot to go back and hone, I bet one guy bored it and another built it without noticing it was never honed.   To a naked eye looking at a bored or honed cylinder you have to look close to see the work was done. After the engine runs and the rings wear out trying to hone the cylinder the lack of hone is much more obvious. You have a solid case of machine shop failure, the shop owner should look at your photos and open his wallet to fix it because it will be cheaper and better for his shops reputation but he may just roll it to his insurance company to fight you. In California the law says you have to give the shop the opportunity to fix all the damage and if you don't the repair is back on you.   I don't know what Texas law states but your lawyer should be able to advise.

Quick observation based on your photos.
The cylinders were never honed or they failed to take out enough material with the hone they did.   Those are boring bar marks in the cylinder in your photos. They should have been 100% removed by a proper hone.   Shops leave about .002-.003 in the cylinder after boring to allow for a proper hone.   A proper hone removes the boring bar marks and leaves a proper cylinder finish that your rings will seat well on.
Maybe someone just forgot to hone or thought it was done, either way, very poor work on your engine.

Take all 8 of your 2nd ring Piston rings.   Stack them up and take a picture from the side. You want to show the side of the ring where it rubs on the cylinder wall.
I will guarantee your rings from that engine even with very low run time are now sanded flat and will show a chrome like finish top to bottom on all 8 rings.
The rough cylinder sanded those rings.

The face of the second ring is made of cast iron, it is sloped, like a " \ " This \ shape touched the cylinder wall and is designed to help scrape oil off the cylinder wall or meter the oil so the top ring gets oiled but not too much. It helps the top ring and third ring do their job.   In a low mile or hour engine when they are torn down with a proper cylinder hone the 2nd ring will show a silver line that only takes up maybe 10% of the \ shape where it is actually wearing/touching on the cylinder wall.   At 100,000 miles on a good cylinder wall this \ shape touching the cylinder wall may be worn 40-50% where it touches the cylinder wall so 40% will show silver and the remaining part of the ring will still be black finish just like when it was new because it has not ever touched the cylinder wall.   It has broken in and shows some wear but is operating normally.
The second ring will document your damage and lack of a good cylinder finish.
You can also document that the shop was the only one to actually run your engine so they are 100% responsible for the damages. They built it, they damaged it.
Top rings will also show damage and they should be photographed with all 8 stacked but you will learn lots more from the 2nd ring, moly is tough and will hide a lot of damage or sometimes it just chips away and again you don't learn as much.

I don't know what your lawyer is advising but having worked in the Engine Re Manufacturing industry for nearly 30 years I will share that courts only look at documented damage.   So go ahead and have your engine built while keeping great documentation of what was found and what your costs are to fix it.

Your engine bearings do not actually look that bad, the scratches you see are mostly in the Tin Plate on the bearings, tin plate is a final coating that is there to help break in the engine and protect the part while it is shelved before they go in an engine.   The tin plate coating is only 20/1,000.000 of an inch thick so most of the scratches showing are not anything to worry about but they do look bad.   The thrust bearing does show deeper scratches that are in the copper layer of the bearing,   Those were larger particles that went through your oiling system and reached the bearings.   Your Cylinder finish is the cause of your failure.   I bet they plumb forgot to go back and hone, I bet one guy bored it and another built it without noticing it was never honed.   To a naked eye looking at a bored or honed cylinder you have to look close to see the work was done. After the engine runs and the rings wear out trying to hone the cylinder the lack of hone is much more obvious.
You have a solid case of machine shop failure, the shop owner should look at your photos and open his wallet to fix it because it will be cheaper and better for his shops reputation but he may just roll it to his insurance company to fight you.

In California the law says you have to give the shop the opportunity to fix all the damage and if you don't the repair is back on you.   I don't know what Texas law states but your lawyer should be able to advise.

Of course the vertical scratches in the cylinders and the scratches on the bearing surfaces suggest that there was a lot of ""crud" in the engine when it was run.

Really feel for you. Absolute bummer. Would ruin me
Sounds like you can handle setback and your on right track now
Move forward, try to forget that fool

Horns:

What's the latest on your engine rebuild disaster? Hopefully you are able to work through it all...

Terrible news.

I hope it works out for you. A lot of the real trauma I have had over the years has come from handing the boat over to 'professionals', but nothing on this scale. This 'builder' is a joke. Based on what you have done so far I'm sure you will turn this around in the Longhorns favour.

Best of luck.

D

No clue on how much you have spent but since you are going to keep it for a long long time - then money WELL spent !! Interesting and enjoyable thread.

KENO wrote: It seems like whatever you do with the engine, you're gonna be into some tuning adventures all over again with all the changes from the original 351. It also seems like the thought should at least cross your mind to see what your wallet weighs these days and consider a new complete drop in fuel injected crate engine from PCM or whoever. I'd at least call Jodi at Florida Inboards and have a conversation about what you would have for options since he does a fair amount of repowers in tournament boats. It'd be new, reliable, have good parts support and ................expensive. You could sell the 408 stuff to somebody here on CCF probably Ford would probably be spelled funny, more like Chevy unless it was an Indmar Raptor Like I said,earlier just something to at least consider

I seriously considered the zr409 and zr450. But originality was important to me so I decided to stick with the original 351. I still have the same feeling today. I think it would cool to tell my kids “the engine in this boat pulled me on my first jump set”.

Now a lot of people would say that I’m not being logical. My girlfriend thinks I’m crazy for spending this much on a boat and my dad says that you can’t buy a boat like this today. He gets it lol.

The oil test came back today. I think the writing is on the wall but im not sure. A quote from Blackstone’s analysis.

“Universal averages show typical wear for a 351 cid Ford marine engine, and they're based on oil run about 30 hours. Most of the wear metals are in the average range, but copper and lead are on the high side. These metals typically show wear at the bearings, but aren't necessarily high enough to suggest a major problem at this point. Silicon is elevated, too, and it can come from either harmless sealer or abrasive
dirt. The oil's viscosity reads like a 5W/30, and the 6.5 TBN indicates active additive left in the oil. Watch oil pressure and check back in 5-10 hrs.”

ArtCozier wrote: You are correct; very little value in the 40. PCM offers a really nice "kit" for retrofit to the 80.. It is an exact fit so no angle change or length problems. You do have to change out the drive plate; it is included in the kit. Specify the "top mount" shift cable, otherwise it might come with a "bottom shift" cable connection that I don't like because the ram (moving part of the cable) points upwards and will allow water to seep into the cable jacket. You also have to upgrade the oil cooler to a higher capacity one. It also comes with the kit. The inside of the 80 closely resembles the virtually indestructible Warner Gears of the past. Obviously you have the ability to do the changeout yourself. Discount Inboard Marine (www.skidim.com) has the kits. The guys there are super-knowledgeable.

Yeah, Vince has been super helpful to me over the last couple years. Knowing that 80 series kit exists is why I am ok with utilizing the 40 series for now. If it doesn’t last, well the swap is easy!