95' Nautique Project ... expanded

Here's a link

Gary's test

PCM had different dipsticks for different mounting angles etc

This 95 example in Joe's boat being relatively level should be pretty straightforward.

I like the way you think Duane (about the welded drain on the side)

It's got the dipstick port already

Just gotta put in the dipstick fitting from the old pan.

Joe just needs to find out the brand and application or part number of the blue one from the machine shop and it should be an easy and cheap replacement for certain years of boats.

Probably have to do the Gary S oil pan capacity test to check/mark the dipstick

gt40KS wrote:

I put one of these on both my boats along with all my vehicles (except my F250 diesel plenty of room to work under there)
http://www.fumotousa.com

Not sure why you wouldn’t assemble the motor completely while its on the stand, then connect the tranny and drop it in. That’s what I did and it was a lot easier then climbing in and out and working on your knees.
Drop it in hook up the ground, strainer hose, plug it in, align and done.

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Yep, and he should be able to quantify that "oodle"

So Joe..............right about now with the engine in place and not much clutter to get in your way, you ought to be able to tell if the other oil pan would clear the hull in your 95 with a 1.23 PCM

That'd be pretty useful information for some people, since the originals are hard to find.

It looks like there's plenty of clearance for either pan

As to how the Machine shops are able to use a Sim machine at 400 RPM and not cause damage that answer is straight forward. They use a very high quality assembly lube which buys you some forgiveness on start up. Once that wears off and the oil in the engine supply takes over you had better be turning higher RPM pretty quick..
There are a few companies that make this assembly lube.   Sealed Power sells it Part # LL5.   This stuff is several times better than Moly lube but also mixes well with oil once oil gets to the part. Today, Comp Cams and others all have their special assembly lube.
The LL5 is great on camshafts, Lifters, Engine Bearings, Cylinders,Pistons and Rings.

A SIM machine just spins it enough so they can verify Oil Pressure and the load it takes to turn it measured in Amps.   History tells them how many amps it takes to spin a 351W or any other engine and they compare it to history.
I know a lot of the large Production Machine Shops used to use a SIM machine.
Production shops did more than 50 engines per month.   My largest did 1,500 Per month.
A lot of these larger companies are now out of business, only a few survived after 2001.
As these guys folded up a lot of that machine equipment ended up in smaller shops.
Knowing what I do about camshaft break in I would still use a SIM test prior to installing an engine if it was available. It catches that 1 in 100 chance of something being off.

Wow, a lot has been going on here in the last few days since I've been away

Several comments and questions come to mind reading all of that but first, an update on what I've been doing ....













Tomorrow I have a couple of meetings in the morning but after that the weekend will be devoted to getting the ECM installed and connecting as much of the wiring as I can. Then fuel, bilge and plumbing lines. I'd like to also get all the front bolt-on parts installed, or at least a good start on them.

There is a list of reasons why break in of cams running non roller cams is more important today..
The parts involved are not the same quality as in 1970 in some cases. Lifers were built better back then. Most parts are better or far better today but not old school lifters.
On a new engine initial start the lifters may not spin in their bore..
If they don't spin when the cam lobe strikes them they will first scratch the lifter face and then that lifter will soon cup out. The cam lobe digs the center out of the lifter and the cam lobe wears off.
This issue started showing up in mass in the mid 1980's and has been the norm we have to deal with since then.
By spinning the new engine at least 1,500 to 2,300 for the first 20 minutes run time the lifters are hit with more speed which has proven to make the lifters spin.
If you get them spinning and keep them spinning the cam and lifters break in and will work a full life with no additional attention.
Oils have changed, the lifters in the 80's had a hard plate foot on them about 1/8 inch thick. That has been gone for years now.
The parts changed and the break in procedure changed with it.
The engines will be fine if proper break in is followed.
I bet 8 out of 10 would be OK even if the owner did not start it perfectly.
I would hate to be the two out of 10 that had cam failure on start up.
That ruins your day.
Best situation is to have your tune very close to correct before ever attempt in the first start so when it starts you can rev it right away to more than 1,500 and keep it there for the first 20 minutes.
Talk to any professional machine shop and they will lecture you on start up procedure .
Some do it in house to avoid warranty issues.
Cams are not the cause of this issue, cams are hardened in ovens and the cam lobe ends up hardened about 3/8 of an inch deep end to end. It is impossible to have one soft lobe in the middle of a camshaft.
I hope sharing this saves people from wrecking brand new properly rebuilt engines.

MrMcD wrote: . After all this if the engine runs a Non Roller camshaft you still have to break in the camshaft on start up. 20 minutes at 1,500 to 2,300 RPM as soon as possible after initial start up. This is necessary to avoid camshaft failure on start up in the new engine. The lifters and camshaft have to mate to survive.

A curious person would have to wonder why this process and the break in rules for a flat tappet cam seem to contradict each other.

Why is X number of minutes at low rpm then stopping it not a bad thing for the cam?

I'm a curious person

I'm guessing Joe's powdercoater had absolutly nothing to do with any of this,the engine came from the builder with this paint and this hardware already on it.

I dont want to get you riled up but your powder coater slightly missed on the shade of blue

Thanks Joe

The pan shots look like the temporary one is a Spectra or Dorman like what I had comparison shots of in the linked thread below.

Only your pan is prettier

Do you have a windage tray in that red pan of yours?

Flip it over and take a picture

link

gt40KS wrote: It's a Pioneer, guess it goes both ways?   Shop owner told me after the took it off of the sim they set it at TDC on #1 for me ... make it easier to finish the install. Of course, I got out the scope first thing and confirmed. What was it that Duane had said a few days ago? Trust no one!

Nah.............it only goes one way, otherwise the markings would go in opposite directions

Some Small Block Ford water pumps for those land based vehicles have the inlet on the left and others on the right and they had different locations for the timing pointer because of that so the markings had to be in different places. I guess you have a more or less "universal" one In the third picture it looks like your pointer is aligned with the 0 on the outermost markings

Is that Pioneer the same thickness as your original so you won't have any alignment issues?

I know nothing about a sim, so what do they do to it for 30 minutes on this thing?.

I'm more curious about the harmonic balancer with 2( edit make that 3) sets of markings.

I guess when you put it at TDC on #1 you'll know which ones to use

It's time for an oil pan comparison picture too by the way while they're both off.