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Low temp readings,gauge

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forvicjr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2013 at 9:27pm
Peter, she might like to service her boat sometimes, instead of having to depend on someone else to service her ummm boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2013 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by forvicjr forvicjr wrote:

I have the same issue, gauge reads barely over 100* with fifty degree water temps. Last year mine would get to around 125* with 70* water temps. This info is all from the gauge.


Mine runs about the same,on shutdown rises,on restart goes right back down. I think it's just my goofy cooling system design. I have wondered if I put a 160 thermostat in place of a 140 what it would do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2013 at 9:48pm
Gary, I assume the HM thermostat location is still in the same place? Where is your temp sensor? One would think that if the water temp at the thermostat has to reach 143 for it to open, that the sensor would be reading that temperature if it were mounted in the same vicinity. I wonder if your stat is faulty and opening early?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JDD33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2013 at 1:23am
Interesting, my engine with the HM cooling system is doing the same thing. Last summer I replaced the t-stat and it ran at 140 consistently, then late last fall on the lake it wouldn't crack 100. This spring running on the hose it again wouldn't warm up to 140, I pulled the t-stat and checked it and it opened right at 140 ish, I checked the gauge and sending unit and with applied heat and it read correct. Can the single pump(witha new impeller ) push enuf water to make the engine run cool?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2013 at 2:15am
Tim everything is in standard Ford locations.The temp does go a little higher if the water your in is higher. I have always wondered why HM eventually added a standard circulating pump,was it to even out the temps? I think this summer I'll check the 'stat and if it checks out ok I might just try a 160. Just looking in my parts book a 140 is listed but does not say what year or engine.The actual pages for my pump set up just says thermostat. A 160 is for '71 and up FW cooled and heat exchanger models,these models having the circulation pump too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2013 at 12:17pm
Mr.peter. I like to learn about the horse ,I ride on!Plus he is too busy at time chasing down the bad guys of this world we live in!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2013 at 12:18pm
You are correct! forvic...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MI-nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2013 at 3:52pm
this may be way off...but i think if you are running with cold water (say 40 or 50 degrees), the thermostat could be OK and temp could still be lower than normal (120 ish). when the t-stat is closed, water still circulates through the exhaust manifolds...which are bolted to the heads and then block. the manifolds stay pretty cold (~60)so the heat from the block will be transferred quickly to the manifolds and the engine would take a really long time or potentially never warm up. since it's an open cooling system, the t-stat can only do so much when the water is really cold. anybody buying this??
the first couple times out this year in my SAN, the temp was 130ish...160ish last summer...the water temp was probably 45...i think the t-stat is fine.
As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2013 at 6:32pm
The way PCM sets up the thermostat the water can move though the engine and get out with the thermostat closed. The extra cool water may keep it from needing to open, the heater and extra lines for the vdrive could be regulating it to some degree too.

I was listening to the hot rod builders the other day talk about motor plumbing and they were concerned with getting the the forced induction BBC's to warm up enough on the winter. Probably has something to do with the cool water moving faster because of the speeds those boats run. One of the tricks was to cool the exhaust first and then the motor. Unfortunately not an option for us the way our risers are set up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2013 at 6:45pm
Are you sure about water bypassing the thermostat? That doesnt sound right to me. Last time I had a PCM Ford thermostat housing apart, I thought I remember that bypass hole existing on the inlet, not the outlet. That would allow the block to fill up regardless of thermostat being open/closed, rather than what you describe.

Chrysler marine engines were set up similar to how the go-fast guys would like. They had dual impeller RWP's, where one path is set up to pull (cold) lakewater and put it through the manifolds- the other impeller pulls warm water from the exhaust manifolds and puts it through the engine. Sort of disconcerting to have one half of the RWP always running warm/hot (same goes for the t'stat housing) but thats exactly what they were meant to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2013 at 7:01pm
I look when I get home, but that's what I though that hole was there for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2013 at 7:21pm
pmc incorporates a DUAl by-pass system.. Full circulation through out the ENTIRE engine even when warming up.

When the water in the BLOCK warms up enough, then thermo will open or should open..

See guys, I am learning.. This was my pre winter class last year...That is why you drain the block,, because you never know how much water to anti-freeze mixure is in the block...ha ha !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2013 at 7:25pm
Kinda one in the same, but Tim's a little more correct. The "by pass" you are speaking of is really just the supply from the RWP. Once the block is full it's full. Besides some convection most of the raw water is going up over the t-stat and out the exhaust.






And Nick, I boat a lot in really cold water. Once that t-stat finally opens the temp drops drastically then takes a little while to catch back up to ~160 but always does (if doing more than just idling).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MI-nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2013 at 7:57pm
it's entirely possible that i'm full of it...i'll see how the temp responds as the season progresses...
As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2013 at 9:04pm
I just looked at mine, and realized the hole was not where I thought. I do remember spending some time thinking about how that worked while I was taking it apart, but I can't picture exactly how the hoses were with it off right now.

My temp does move around some, but not as much as you would expect considering the water changes nearly 50 degrees. We get down to the mid 40's and I've seen it up to the mid 90's in August, the motor temp only varies by 20 degrees.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2013 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by eljayrx eljayrx wrote:

pmc incorporates a DUAl by-pass system.. Full circulation through out the ENTIRE engine even when warming up.

When the water in the BLOCK warms up enough, then thermo will open or should open..

See guys, I am learning.. This was my pre winter class last year...That is why you drain the block,, because you never know how much water to anti-freeze mixure is in the block...ha ha !

I'm sorry but I feel you are WRONG!!! Until the T stat opens, no water goes through the block. It's ALL by passed to the manifolds.

BTW Lin, please fill us in on your background. You seem to be more informed than the average male here!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2013 at 2:12am
I feel that the t stat will begin opening before the the 145* mark, 145* would be a full open temp. This would explain the low temps we're seeing. My gauge is on the money as I verified with a laser temp gun. If the t stat partially opens at lower temps this would in fact be a bypass type situation. I do know last year the hotter the lake temps got the hotter the motor got. Mine would even show a difference between hot mid day and night runs. Last year during the hottest days and me hauling a$$ to get five miles up the lake it would barely hit 140* and as soon as I come off plane it would barely read over 100*. What we are seeing I think is very efficient cooling systems. Those that are running higher might have rust scale impellor debre or what not making them run warmer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2013 at 2:32am
Its easy to pop it in a pot and watch it open and know exactly what it's doing or not doing and at exactly what temps it does it.

Motors running that cold are not running efficiently.

The thermostat is there to warm the engine up. and to keep it running at the optimum operating temperature(Not too cold)

Anytime the cooling lowers the temp below the t-stat temp it CLOSES to warm up the engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2013 at 10:06am
Mr. Peter "

You are harder than my 11 grade Science teacher.. His Name was Mr.Ball.

I use to call him to myself of course. Mr.Ball-Buster. So did my other brothers too.

Since I do not have any of those. I kept the tradition alive ..

The correct craft book says full circulation through-out the entire engine. Now maybe ,the wording is not exact, in the book as to what really takes place.

I guess the mail water pump circulates the water in the block even though the thermo has not opened..? {hence the wording CIRCULATION}?

I still like you,very much though-You are very helpful for sure..

Just a country girl, that likes to learn things.I can hunt deer,skin a a snake, and catch frogs, frog legs are good, Ever have them?

Also a very good shot with a rifle. Pitty the person that ever breaks in my house..Or tries too.
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Is your Gun loaded..?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2013 at 11:33am
Are those your "Huntin' Nylons"?

Doh!.......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2013 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:

Its easy to pop it in a pot and watch it open and know exactly what it's doing or not doing and at exactly what temps it does it.

Motors running that cold are not running efficiently.

The thermostat is there to warm the engine up. and to keep it running at the optimum operating temperature(Not too cold)

Anytime the cooling lowers the temp below the t-stat temp it CLOSES to warm up the engine.


I'll check mine as soon as I get a chance I'll let you guys know what I find. Also optimum temps for these engines is 180* any less is more wear and less power, any more wear rate goes back up and power starts to drop. Wonder why the hell pcm chose the 145* temp?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2013 at 1:04pm
Air.....Only in warm weather conditions...

with a pair of cut off jeans.. Seems to have a nice contrast ,that look..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2013 at 1:56pm
Nice Savage 99 w/Octagon barrel, flip up peep site.

Frog legs...taste like amphibious chicken...I hated frog gigging...when we used a hachet to whack their legs off...they don't die...they crawl around legless ...no more frogging for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2013 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by eljayrx eljayrx wrote:

Mr. Peter "

You are harder than my 11 grade Science teacher.. His Name was Mr.Ball.

Mr.Ball-Buster.

Ask your brother(s) if you don't understand. Sorry!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2013 at 11:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2013 at 11:35am
Mr. Peter ,I do understand, it!

When the block warms up enough, The thermo opens to allow the cooler water to flow into the block and have the hotter water exit the block.

Like I said- maybe the wording in the book,could be mis-understood?

There is no need to file for a divorce. Small things like this can be worked out..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2013 at 12:12pm
Did Mr. Peter meet his match? Seems possible!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2013 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by eljayrx eljayrx wrote:

When the block warms up enough, The thermo opens to allow the cooler water to flow into the block and have the hotter water exit the block.


No, you do not understand. Cold water is always trying to get it. It will fill an empty block. Once it's full, this water is trapped in the block until the thermostat opens. Once this happens the hot water exits, new cold water can go in. The thermostat is the back door out of the engine. The front door is always open, just sometimes the block is at max capacity and raw water gets turned away (by pass).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2013 at 1:59pm
One should always remember that water flows from the bottom up... Block fills, then heads, then intake. Thermostat housing is at the exit (intake). The entrance to the block is via the circ pump.
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