Starter Going Bad??

the only thing you can "rebuild" in a starter is 4 new brushes. other than that you cant rebuild them. and yes. you could have one re-wound but thats big bucks. you have an old starter with a short somewhere and it pulls a lot more amps than it should lowering the voltage significantly at the stater. that happened to our Martinique. the guy before us put in a HUGE deep cycle marine/rv battery. but we pulled the mini high torque starter from our supra and it turns the over the lower compression 351w in the Martinique like no tomorrow!

David, it could be a sign of bad starter and you can send the starter out for a rebuild if it is indeed bad. Check ALL contacts for looseness or corrosion before going after a starter. How are the cables from the battery to the starter itself? Is the new battery a DEEP Cycle battery? If it is then that's probably the culprit

Dave what ever you do, do not take it to the guy on RT31 and Virgina by the tennis club, AGS Rebuilders. Go to MG Auto Electric 500 S. Arthur Ave in Arlington Heights way nicer people to work with. Ags has been sold and he's not a good communicator.

You going to Green Lake? If I do go out on the Fox it's going to be to give John B a ride so he has some more motivation to get his done. Then Im going to pull out the floor,change all control cables and start putting the pan and console back in.

I don't think we are going to GL. Got a long weekend the following weekend. I take you are going? Let me know if you need a hand with anything.

In fact, you can take John and I out for a ride. We can discuss politics over a cold beer

You might want to pre-medicate with a few before you start!

Dave, There was just another member with the same issue, starting battery solved his problem. I would swap a regular starting battery from one of your cars in there to rule out that cause before you waste time on anything else.

Dave, so you are saying a deep cycle battery isn't really for starting? I didn't realize that. When I bought the battery, it said 750 cold cranking amps, and had other specs that a normal battery has. So, I thought it was a normal starting battery with special capability to help auxilliary equipment...ie...pumps, lights, etc.

I tighted the nut that holds the cable on the starter, so I am hoping that solves the problem. Its in the garage right now, and jumps right to life when I hit the starter. But, if the problem persists, I will pull the new battery out of my truck, and put it in the boat to see if that helps.

Basic Battery Types

There are two basic types of 12-volt batteries: 1) cranking, or starting, batteries, which are designed to start your main engine, and 2) deep-cycle batteries, which are used to power electrical accessories such as trolling motors, fish-finders and radios. Dual-purpose batteries that can perform both these functions to some extent also are available.

Cranking Batteries

Engine cranking requires lots of power in a short burst. A battery with more surface area on the lead plates inside it delivers more fast power than one with less plate surface. For this reason, cranking batteries are made with thinner, more numerous lead plates. When the engine is running, the battery is quickly replenished by the alternator.

The marine cranking amp (MCA), or just cranking amp (CA), rating found on a battery's label measures a battery's starting power. And if you're using a newer model outboard with sophisticated computers, pumps and sensors that don't take kindly to being underpowered, you certainly don't want to scrimp on starting power. Check your engine's manual for its recommended MCA/CA rating before shopping for a battery, and always choose a battery with a rating equal to or greater than the recommended value.

Deep-Cycle Batteries

Trolling motors and other accessories sip power at a slower rate for extended periods. Batteries that power them usually aren't recharged until the end of the day. These deep discharges are hard on battery plates, so deep-cycle batteries have fewer yet thicker lead plates than cranking batteries and are built to withstand deep cycling.

A deep-cycle battery's reserve capacity (RC) rating indicates how long it can carry a specific load before falling into the dead zone. The higher the RC number, the longer the battery will power your accessories. Remember this when choosing a battery. Typically, a deep-cycle battery will have two or three times the RC of a cranking battery. A deep-cycle battery also can withstand several hundred discharge/recharge cycles, while a cranking battery is not designed to be totally discharged.

No Substitutions

The key thing to remember when purchasing cranking and deep-cycle battery types is not to substitute one for the other. If you use a cranking battery to power your trolling motor, for instance, the battery will soon overheat and fail, leaving you without power and requiring you to buy a new battery. A deep-cycle battery substituted for a cranking battery, on the other hand, may not provide the power needed to start your outboard. You could get stranded with an engine that won't run. The inherent design strengths of each battery type also are their weaknesses in opposite applications.

Dual-Purpose Batteries

It's usually best to install separate cranking and deep-cycle batteries. If your boat is small, however, and there's only room for one battery due to space or weight restrictions, consider buying a dual-purpose marine battery specially that handles starting and cycling. Bear in mind, however, most dual-purpose batteries won't start an engine quite as well as a true cranking battery and won't endure as many deep discharge/recharge cycles as a dedicated deep-cycle model.

Good information Dave. Thanks for that. I just went out and checked out the battery. It is a "dual purpose" marine battery that has seperate posts to hook other gadgets up to. So, I am somewhat relieved I didn't buy the totally wrong kind of battery. Either way, in the future, I will be a much wiser buyer on batteries.

IF you think about it for second. WHY do most bass boats if not all have THREE battery's in them. TWO are deep cycle for running the trolling motor on either 12 or 24 volts. Just as Dave's description above. The THIRD battery is for cranking the motor, PERIOD. That's its sole purpose in life. To provide the AMPS to turn over the motor and fire it up.

Another way to look at it is you don't use a deep cycle battery to start up your car so why would you use one to start your boat? It's basically the same motor.

ononewheel wrote: 89Martinique wrote: we just have a large(is actual size) deep cycle marine/rv battery in our Martinique and its fine. a regular 351w is very easy to start even with the old school plunger type starters I'd put my money on Dave's advice, he's got the right info for you. It's been discussed over and over. Cranking/starting     is what you want, even if the other battery says "MARINE" or what your mechanic told you. Will it start it? sure. For awhile, until it starts to fail accepting a charge or fries a starter or you need to replace the battery sooner than expected, or an alternator.... that is gas money out the window. Do it right. There has got to be something in the manufacturers producing the two types.

Well a 351w is an extremely easy motor to turn over period. the previous owner of our Martinique thought he had a bad battery so he threw in a huge ass deep cycle battery. but what was wrong is that the starter was shorting. so we put the mini high torque one from the supra in the Martinique. the mini's use less power and produce more torque and crank the engine faster. the battery is still fine. charges right up. we left it hooked up over winter and it still started up just fine.

and there is a major difference between how a cranking battery, deep/cranking battery, and a deep cycle battery are made. it all has to do with the size of the lead plates, the solutions used that dissolves , etc...

OverMyHead wrote: [QUOTE=89Martinique] the previous owner of our Martinique thought he had a bad battery so he threw in a huge ass deep cycle battery. but what was wrong is that the starter was shorting. so we put the mini high torque one from the supra in the Martinique. /QUOTE] It sounds like you fixed the problem caused by the wrong battery by putting in a starter that draws less amps. Seems easier just to put in the right battery.

thats not at all what happened. he told us he had a bad battery so he put a big one because it was hard to start. but it was the starter. the battery hadent hurt it all. the 2 awg wire from the battery was almost hot to the touch after trying to start the boat and the battery is still in good shape. so it was putting out plenty of enough amps. a big block engine you definitely would not want a beep cycle for. but a small block it doesnt make much difference unless it has higher compression like our supra

89Martinique wrote: thats not at all what happened. he told us he had a bad battery so he put a big one because it was hard to start. but it was the starter. the battery hadent hurt it all. the 2 awg wire from the battery was almost hot to the touch after trying to start the boat and the battery is still in good shape. so it was putting out plenty of enough amps. a big block engine you definitely would not want a beep cycle for. but a small block it doesnt make much difference unless it has higher compression like our supra

Wrongo

A dc motor is a dead short at 0 rpm.
A typical deep cycle battery cannot deliver BOTH high current and high voltage, only one or the other.
Power = Current X voltage, so high current at a low voltage means low power delivered, low rpm, but also lots of waste, because P=RI**2, the cables and starter got hot with all the extra current, meaning the starter saw even less applied voltage, so it spun slower, acted more like a dead short, pulled more current, more resistive loss, etc and so on.

I concur, this problem likey began with the battery. Seen it many times before, and we'll keep seeing it as long as they keep writing MARINE on deep cycle batteries.

Dump the deep for a starting battery. Ether that or pull the engine and put a trolling motor in it's place!

BTW, was it that mechanic of yours that sold you the deep?