Winterizing Question

WhiteLakeSkier wrote: i risk an engine, engines cost money. i cannot afford a new engine.

You seem confused. Let me try to clarify:

Draining block = SAFE practice
Not draining block = RISKY practice

Regardless of whether or not you backfill with antifreeze, you NEED to drain the water out first. Otherwise you dont know how much water vs. antifreeze you have in the block, and you risk it cracking. See Bruce's (Riley) example above.

Some marinas obviously have risky winterization practices, and dense employees...

WhiteLake, I would love to comment on your work ethics, but best for me to stay out of the conversation. Better yet is to keep my boat out of your shop.........Boat dr

2000CanadaAirNAutiqu wrote: I'm the new owner of a 2000Air Nautique. I winterized it today, I ran it in the driveway for about 10min, then I drained all the water out of the 5 plugs. I ran 5 gallons of RV antifreeze throught it, I unhooked the inlet and used that to run it through. The bucket went dry and it ran for a few seconds with no Anti-Freeze running through. Will this be sufficent for the winter. Or is there a way I can add more antifreeze to make sure all is good. It is a GT-40 EFI. And how do you winterize the ballest tanks?

I just winterized this same model the other day. You are good to go.
I would not worry a hole lot about the ballast tanks. The aerator pumps should drain. If you are worried, pull a hose off the pickup and blow moderately compressed air through the line. Your only risk is the pumps and I doubt anything would happen. If it did, then you would have to replace the pumps and it would give you a reason to install ballast puppies. Not the worst downside I have ever heard of.


Back to today's scheduled debate.

WhiteLakeSkier wrote: why would a marina use the risky practice? why would people begin to use af if it is more risky?

As you said, draining takes longer in some cases- so some marinas apparently take shortcuts, as you can attest to. That doesnt mean its the proper thing to do. I suspect that lots of people perform the RISKY practice of backfilling only (no draining) because they heard from someone that it was OK to do. We try to prevent the spread of misinformation on CCF, and thats why everyone is jumping all over you.

WhiteLakeSkier wrote: we have winterized thousands of boats for a decade or so using af, no cracked blocks. af is not oil, it will mix when put with water. water is a solvent, no way around it.

Again, Ill cite Bruce's example above. After 20 years of using your procedure, his buddy cracked his block. It shouldnt be a surprise! A/F may dilute with water, but the freezing point is greatly affected when it does so. Without knowing the ratio of water to A/F, you have no idea how much freeze protection you have. RV Antifreeze is not meant to be diluted at all!

WakeSlayer wrote: Your only risk is the pumps and I doubt anything would happen.

The on-demand shower pumps can take a cold snap too. I do know that if the shower pump is off but if the outlet hose is left "open" water will still flow through and start to soak your floor. The only way to "winterize" the shower pump is to fill the line with A/F and pressurize it (blow) until it clicks on. I don't know much about ballast pumps, but I'm thinking they are pretty resiliant to a little frozen water as well.

It is more than taking shortcuts. af has the best rack record for not being risky, and on top of that it is time effective. we dont use af just because it is quicker than draining

The ballast pumps in those boats are just attwood or rule bilge pumps.

HW, Interestingly, the shower I sold Johnny was winterized Oct 2005, and when ran it before I removed it this Spring, the antifreeze was still in it. I had never turned it on since the first Fall I had it. Are the newer ones different and do not have the valve plate? Just curious.

Always DRAIN

Mike

that makes no sense. the water being that meets the thermostat is cold as well. the af is cold too. why would it close just when af hits it

WakeSlayer wrote: Are the newer ones different and do not have the valve plate? Just curious.

I've moved that box around like 6 times and haven't even peaked inside yet. It could be the same pump. When I sourced mine it was a Shurflo (in my BoM)? I'd think there is some "holding" volume in the pump that could retain fluid. Perhaps before I install it I'll run it out of the boat, then flip it upside down and see if anything drips out to find out if there is any kind of valve plate inside.

WakeSlayer wrote: Always DRAIN

THEN do whatever you want with A/F to get the benefits it provides.

boat dr wrote: WhiteLakeSkier wrote: why would the thermostat be closed if the engine is warm? The thermostat opens or closes as the coolant temp rises or falls. This has little to do with block temp.If the block temp is 200 and you pour in 75 degree mixture the 'stat will slam closed till the mixture reached the opening temp of the thermostat,140 or so,,,,,,,,,,,DUH?????

WhiteLakeSkier wrote: that makes no sense. the water being that meets the thermostat is cold as well. the af is cold too. why would it close just when af hits it

Hollywood wrote: You're totally not getting it, are you high?

C-Bass wrote: Several comments.... 1. Your punctuation may save you 2 seconds, but it also makes you look stupid. 2. Just because you work at a marina does not mean every process you're using is the best process. 3. Stop arguing about whether or not A/F is the big debate here...read the comments...it's about NOT draining the block. Quit going back and making it purely about A/F vs. no A/F. And on this... WhiteLakeSkier wrote: there is no time to drain a couple hundred engines in less than a month, especially since it is impossible to know if all of the water has drained out of each engine. I gotta disagree, I just did this whole process last weekend and it seriously took about 5 minutes for the block to drain out. While it was draining I was unhooking the RWP-Tstat hose preparing to fill with A/F. Whole process took about 15 minutes.

White lake can't do 10 boats a day?? That's not even including Saturdays!!! Do they simply have their inexperienced laborers do it?

You also don't know but I worked at a marina. We drained first and back filled per the engine marinizers recommendations.

I think a halfway motivated 16 year old kid could be trained in an hour, given three wrenches, a nut driver, and a bucket and /or funnel, and handle the whole lot of boats after school hours. Problem solved for $8 per hour, $10 if he is fast.

i know it is -100 because it is written label of the 55 gal. barrels! The winterizing is only handled by mechanics anyways. the other people and i change lug, change oil, and winterize the e-tecs.

No offense to you personally, but that's exactly why I do as much of my own maintenance as humanly possible on everything I own. Dealers/marinas are typically more interested in the quantity of service, not the quality.

But I still do not think draining the block takes hardly any time what so ever. Especially for trained individuals who know what they're doing

it is not ethylene glycol, but propylene glycol. much safer. we do not focus on quantity, we charge a high rate for things because of its quality. we usually do the best around, and certainly deal the best products