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A buffalo’s first bowtie

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuttyskier2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

Nutty, did you see the earlier post on the cam i have? i have a double roller timing set also, it is from a Merc and they dont use cheap sh-t, I cold get a part number if you are interested and then pull the spec on it,


I did Eric, however I have already purchased my cam from Summit. Wish I new of yours a bit sooner. Also I did contemplate the idea of changing course and going stroker like you suggested. I think instead I'm going to have a little taken off the surface of the heads to bump up the compreesion to about 9.2 - 9.3. That's what my stock motor is (according to my manual). Thanks for the offer though. Brian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by 87BFN owner 87BFN owner wrote:

Eric would it be possible to put a 1.23 tranny behind the 454 just like the python set up? I know the shaft would have to be swapped out, but will the hole in the hull for the shaft fit the larger 1 and 1/8 shaft?

Motor mounts may change a bit since the reduction tranny incorporates the down angle. The 1.23 uses a 1" shaft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 8:11pm
That is why I have not torn into my 454 yet. All the pieces to the puzzle have not been located yet.

Eric would it be possible to put a 1.23 tranny behind the 454 just like the python set up? I know the shaft would have to be swapped out, but will the hole in the hull for the shaft fit the larger 1 and 1/8 shaft?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 8:11pm
Nutty, did you see the earlier post on the cam i have? i have a double roller timing set also, it is from a Merc and they dont use cheap sh-t, I cold get a part number if you are interested and then pull the spec on it,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuttyskier2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by BuffaloBFN BuffaloBFN wrote:


As simple as it sounds, the RR cam is a mirror image of the LH cam even though it's turning the standard way. They are not interchangeable. The RH(counter rotation)part # is 13HR00034 with all of the same specs as the 139001...same price as well.


Now that makes perfect sense!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 8:01pm
James it sounds like a flat tappet, Greg did you investigate the possibility of the timing set and a right hand roller as TR suggested? if your going back to what you had you can buy the cam that goes in it for $220.00 thru JA Chamberlin,
all the concern is getting you a roller, that hands down is the only way to go when doing what your doing, keep plugging away at these Cam companies, crane isnt the only cam manufacturer out there.
call Comp, call Lunati, most of the times the call is free.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

this was a big dollar decision at the round table as to why they should spin to the right, out of all the knowledge that spews on this forum someone has to know the true reason
Pete?


I've yet to hear a believable reason. Someone said the early engines/boats were flywheel forward so all the props were made RH. When they swithced the engines around, they had to switch the rotation because there were no LH props.

Having spent the 1st half of my life with RH, and the 2nd half with LH, I can tell you I like LH better. LH pulls to the dock on the drivers side which is better IMO. LH without a passenger leans at slower speeds, but the faster you go, the more it levels out. At slalom speeds it's level. Either way it's a pretty minor difference, except for those repowering getting the wallets hurt more with RH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 7:25pm
Buffalo
So he said to use part # 13HR00034 for your motor and firing order? Will this cam support a roller lifter set up? What did he say the price was and through who?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 7:01pm
We want a shrubbery?!!?   LOL

I talked to crane again. I guess I had a brain cramp(didn't explain properly) but he knew exactly what I needed without thinking about it after we understood each other[TR's format(read:knew his stuff!).

As simple as it sounds, the RR cam is a mirror image of the LH cam even though it's turning the standard way. They are not interchangeable. The RH(counter rotation)part # is 13HR00034 with all of the same specs as the 139001...same price as well. It's an expensive upgrade that he gave me several reasons to make; one was the oil/zinc content and 'wiped out cams'.

I normally try to get blood out of a penny, but I'm going to do this. If we don't get our lake back next year, I'll have plenty of time to pay for it?!!?   LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by BuffaloBFN BuffaloBFN wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

I assume that RH BBC cam blanks are readily available?


I haven't heard of any yet...still waiting on 2 calls.

I find it hard to believe that any part could be harder to find for a BBC than a SBF... but anythings possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

I assume that RH BBC cam blanks are readily available?


I haven't heard of any yet...still waiting on 2 calls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

Greg I do, wait 5 years on that trans lol


I'll admit I'm thick at times...whatcha' mean?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

this was a big dollar decision at the round table as to why they should spin to the right, out of all the knowledge that spews on this forum someone has to know the true reason
Pete?

Like I alluded to above, Im convinced its to offset the weight of the driver. In many states (including Florida, the waterski capital of the world) its legal to ski without a spotter.

Im betting the reason for the LH rotation on the HO (425hp) 454 was due to camshaft selection. It allowed them to use an off-the-shelf (read: cheaper) roller cam.

Originally posted by BuffaloBFN BuffaloBFN wrote:

We have only 2 as often as we have a boat full. TR, I haven't driven a LH ski boat...it's that bad of a lean? I ask people to help me balance the boat as it is! LOL

Its not terrible, but its noticeable. I defintely prefer RH rotation, but of course Im biased.

Im assuming that RH BBC flat tappet cam blanks are readily available. I highly doubt there are RH roller blanks, though. Probably the same issue as the RR Fords... but for $700+ theyll build you the blank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:


I can tell you for certain that Ive skied more times without an observer than I have skied without a driver.


We have only 2 as often as we have a boat full. TR, I haven't driven a LH ski boat...it's that bad of a lean? I ask people to help me balance the boat as it is! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:25pm
Im with TR, but do they offer a roller in a right hand cam?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:23pm
Greg I do, wait 5 years on that trans lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:22pm
this was a big dollar decision at the round table as to why they should spin to the right, out of all the knowledge that spews on this forum someone has to know the true reason
Pete?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

its becoming more clear why they went with this set up, because if you ever need one you have to go thru your local PCM dealer and pay twice of what it should go for


I was wondering why they went LH for the hotter motor(425hp). I don't dare say what I'm thinking about that, but plenty of manufacturers do what they can to predict revenue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:19pm
myth 24, in reverse the boat pulls towards the dock to unload, that was one of the better ones Ive heard
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

myth 27, counter balance the driver...f-k the observer dont need one

I can tell you for certain that Ive skied more times without an observer than I have skied without a driver.

Its a wash when you have an observer, but a boat with a LH prop leans pretty good when you drive it alone. It makes for an uneven wake for the skier. My '90 runs dead level at 25+ with me alone... just sayin'.

My vote is for a chain drive and a RH cam. You get to keep the reverse rotation and dont have to buy a new prop!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:14pm
myth 27, counter balance the driver...f-k the observer dont need one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:13pm
it may be proprietary to PCM, and not a GM part number, its becoming more clear why they went with this set up, because if you ever need one you have to go thru your local PCM dealer and pay twice of what it should go for
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

f-k it, flip the pump get a left hand prop and have the seal area re-ground on the crank, and set it up for a left hand engine


Now that's spooky! I was just thinking of asking that...didn't want to wear out my welcome though. Hasn't it been said here that it's to counterbalance the driver?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:10pm
Tr, for the life of me i dont know, i would think you could do what your suggesting, but why the fudge do they have to be so diffucult, there's a reason they went with that gear and cam set up, and im curious as to why, I looked thru my merc stuff and they dont do that, and Jim bragg wants to cam his engine and it doesnt look like there are many options. my option is spinning it to the left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:06pm
Anyone know where the part # is supposed to be on the old cam? And yea I know, look at it; but I don't see it. Most all of the other parts say GM and a #, but I don't see that here. On the back end it has hand tooled #'s that say 8899. There is a casting mark behind the 3rd lobe, 349...and I don't have the puller for the gear, so I hope it isn't under there?!!? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 6:02pm
f-k it, flip the pump get a left hand prop and have the seal area re-ground on the crank, and set it up for a left hand engine
I was told it was a special cam and the reason CC's use right hand engines (this is what i was told from another reliable source) is back in the day Chris Crafts were flywheel forward and they copied from that (myth number 26)   I still dont have the real reason why they use right hand engine....somebody please enlighten me.

As for the issue of the cam, that's what i was told, i dont belive anything until i see it with my own eyes so im still open minded on the cam issue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

Edit, basically you need that cam, it is a special cam thru pcm, its not available in a roller it retails for $280.00
or there is other options such as the one you were looking into, but a lefty wont work

Would it be an option to switch from a gear drive to a chain, and use a RH cam?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 5:49pm
Edit, basically you need that cam, it is a special cam thru pcm, its not available in a roller it retails for $280.00
or there is other options such as the one you were looking into, but a lefty wont work
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 5:46pm
reading the service manual it states both firing orders, with the HO version it used the automotive order. I think if you realy look at the crank relative to the firing orders there might not be an issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2007 at 5:04pm
I keep thinking on why would the engineers come up with this gear set that from what im reading a special cam too, why didnt they just stick with a roller chain and manufacture a opposite cam? its gotta be a normal cam that goes in this thing and the firing order is different
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