No spark / running out of ideas |
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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There is a spacer but not the original one.
I used this one https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetor_components/carburetor_gaskets_adapters_and_spacers/adapters_and_spacers/parts/4945 |
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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I still don’t have the timing light yet. The weather is a mess
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Gary S ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Pretty sure this is what Ken is thinking about. You could have a vacuum leak.
https://www.amazon.com/Edelbrock-2732-Carburetor-Adapter/dp/B000630JXY/ref=asc_df_B000630JXY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309898128610&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7484433107131671709&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011877&hvtargid=pla-569638733036&psc=1
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tryathlete ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Vacuum leaks. I recall on my A&P troubleshooting test for the license, working on an A-65 Lycoming and the examiner hung the updraft carb about 1/4 off of the manifold. It started and ran fine. I saw what he’d done and pretended not to notice and we both started to laugh at about the same time. Neighed of us could imagine it would even start let alone run up fine.
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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Ah. I put an new spacer and gasket on. I don’t remember finding any specific torque specs for the carb. I’m also not sure if there is a gasket between both the intake and the spacer and the spacer and the carb... what’s the correct setup?
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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Is your Mr Gasket spacer smooth on the bottom like is is on the top, or does it have funny passages like your old original spacer? If you're not sure, take the carburetor and spacer off and look at it. (and take a picture to post here) You should have a gasket between the intake and the spacer and another one between the spacer and the carburetor. You could have a giant vacuum leak depending on your gasket arrangement and what the bottom of the 1 inch spacer looks like What works good on the Performer intake is using the flat plate like Gary mentioned with no 1 inch spacer at all. The plate is needed because of the small, thin seating area on the Edelbrock 2181 manifold. You would have a gasket between the manifold and the flat plate and another between the plate and the carburetor. The PCV hose connection can then be plumbed into the threaded hole in the manifold behind the carburetor. You remove the pipe plug and get a fitting for the hose to hook to. It's in the runner that feeds the #4 and 7 cylinders. Some people will say that the PCV gases going there will lean the mixture to those 2 cylinders, some will say no problem at all, Plenty have run that way for years with no issues ![]() It keeps the height down also when you don't use the 1 inch spacer. The Edelbrock manifold is around an inch taller than the stock one so your height is about the same as original Before worrying about this stuff though, try starting it with a shot of gas down the primary throats like mentioned earlier so see if it kicks over and runs meaning that your timing is at least close to where it should be. When Mother Nature allows of course
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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I have some home repair that’s gonna trump the boat this weekend due to the ice.
I’ll definitely put some gas down the primary throats in the carb before I do anything else. A “shot”. Literal measurement? |
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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See the little yellow cap on the spray can, about that much gas is good and it should fire. You might have to repeat a few times or so to get the fuel system primed so it'll stay running.
I use my finely calibrated fingers and a plastic squirt bottle to squirt about that amount in the carburetor ![]() ![]() |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Along with Kens calibrated fingers, one of these works great:
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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So I have the timing real close. I used the camera on my phone in slo mo while I was cranking and I am right at 6 degrees btc. I put some gas down the primary jets and it seems like it’s trying to kick over. I get some intermittent bumps in the cranking speed that I think indicate it’s getting some help from the engine kicking over.
I haven’t pulled the carb yet to look at the spacer. It’s mr gasket 4945. I have gaskets on both sides. From the images I can find online i don’t think it has any passages but I can’t be sure. I had to put it away this afternoon as it started raining. I think I’m close any other suggestions are highly appreciated. |
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Jonny Quest ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2872 |
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Dang. That sure sounds like the dizzy is 180 degrees off. At 10 degrees BTDC, it should fire right up...quickly.
JQ
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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I put a compression gauge on it and as the rotor came to the number one cylinder fire position I was making compression
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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How about spitting out your firing order going counter clockwise around the cap?
Just want to verify what you have. Kinda like a quiz
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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I went out just now and ran them to be sure.
1-8-4-5-6-2-7-3 |
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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To be sure we are speaking the same language. The front of the starboard bank is one right?
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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Congrats, you passed the quiz and here's the cylinder numbering for the 351W ![]() ![]() |
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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So I guess I should pull the carb and check the spacer? It’s a mr gasket 4945. I don’t think it has any passages but I’m not too sure. I definitely have gaskets at both mating surfaces. Anything else i should check or try?
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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It's probably flat and smooth on both sides but it wouldn't hurt to check the spacer just to be sure there's not a vacuum leak path
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SNobsessed ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Have you checked your fuel quality? Maybe you have water in it. That will keep an engine from running.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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I’m not sure how I would gotten water in it... it’s been in the garage all winter. Is there any easy way to test for it?
I was thinking about adjusting the idle screw and the idle mixture back to how they suggest it’s set during initial install.... |
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tryathlete ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Did you fill the tank? Did you add stabil or fuel stabilizer? If you leave a lot of room in the tank, as the air cools, moisture in that air will condense and sink to the bottom of the tank. Of course that’s where your fuel pickup is located and those first few draws to start the boat are fuel in the line but then it’s quickly fed that water you’ve condensed. Water in fuel causes carburetor icing in small recip aircraft which is why pilots sample their fuel (from the bottom of the wing tank) to make sure there’s no water there; which there often is.
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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It’s got stabil in it but it’s not full
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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I don't think I'd worry too much at all about water, unless you're dumping water down the carb throats to get it to kick over and run some
![]() I think the first mention of how you have the carburetor adjusted just came today, so how is it adjusted? I also think that three pages later,with lots of detours, it's time for a quick synopsis of what's been done so far to the engine. I'll get you started, feel free to add anything else. It sounds like you put on gt40 heads, an Edelbrock 2181 Performer intake, a new carb spacer and new plugs and wires . You thought you didn't have spark, but you really did, at least with the new DUI distributor. You got a free replacement module from DUI ![]() You verified the rotor spins CCW so the engine is turning the right way. Timing is now around 6 degrees BTDC and you can see this with the timing light as you crank it over. You're on the compression stroke You dumped some gas down the carb throats and it sounded like it was trying to start Did you do this a few times? Since you mentioned having a compression gauge, what do you have for compression in all your cylinders. Send me your video of the timing if you want keno439@gmail.com will get it to me |
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Gary S ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I'm with Ken -this thing is not even firing with gas dumped down the intake. It should fire that way even if there was no carb on it. Unless someone has changed all his gas in his cans and tank with water
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tryathlete ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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100% agree
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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I pulled the carb off to look at the plate and in doing so I found something stupid I had done. The carb has a nipple on the back of it and I plugged the hose that goes to valve cover into it instead of into the spacer. That would give me a bad vacuum leak right? I'll put it back together right and give it another try.
The spacer is almost entirely smooth with one area that has a little carve out with Mr. Gasket printed in it. Thoughts on keeping the spacer or getting rid of it?
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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Yes on the vacuum leak.
Your studs are the right length for the spacer so stick with it as long as the plate is flat on the bottom too. Probably 1/8 inch pipe threads in the spacer hole. Plug it with a 1/8 inch pipe plug preferably or cover the nipple with a rubber or vinyl cap Then give it a whirl ![]() PS timing video looked good
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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Thanks for checking the video.
The other side to the spacer is completely smooth. The original set up had the hose that runs to the valve cover plumbed to the fitting on a different spacer and the fitting on the back of the carb capped. Just curious but does it matter? Also the fitting where the hose enters the valve cover it rubber and pretty worn. I wonder if I should eventually replace the valve cover as well. |
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KENO ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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Either fitting will work, pretty much your choice of what to plug and what to use.
The other end of that hose should have the PCV valve in it and the valve fits in your worn rubber fitting, it should be good for now to see if you get it running since it ran before the work was done
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Jimscorpsewhale ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: January-27-2021 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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Lots of the boat seems bonded by age/grime. The valve definitely seems far looser than when I broke it free from its mooring. I think it’ll be fine in the short term but it will likely need to be replaced.
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