Glass Layup Schedule on '82 2001? |
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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I've taken the fins off the bottom of the keel a) because two were bent and I want to straighten them and b) I'm sure they haven't been removed in 37 years and the screw holes could be a source of water leakage into the sealed area of the hull. I noticed the tips of these screws penetrating the inside face of the hull when I had all the foam stripped out. I meant to put some layers of glass over it to seal but forgot before I re-foamed. That's what you get when the project gets stretched out for so long.
Therefore I want to reseal the fins to the hull (3M 5200) and seal around the screws themselves. Any recommendations on what to use? Looks like the original was plumbers putty between the fin and hull and in the screw holes. Would like something more permanent but probably not 5200 permanent. I want to be able to get the screws out in the future if say a fin breaks. All the fins were ready to fall off as soon as the last screw was loose. |
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 964 |
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I’d use the same thing to seal the screws. Some like 4200 better. 5200 will do the trick too. If you seal around the bottom of the fin between hull and fun, all you have left is around the head of the screw. We put some in the holes too for good measure.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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aghaydon993
Newbie Joined: March-13-2016 Location: indianapolis Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Thanks Andrew. I didn’t see your email back.. Anyways your sketch did help me. So I’m an electrician from Indy and I bend conduit frequently. The original tubing is basically “1-1/4” rigid conduit” which in the electrical industry is 45$ per 10’ stick.. salty. So used galvanized “water pipe” which is 25$ a Stick. Which is the same OD.. so they come out to be within an 1” of the old tubing to be in length. I just cut the stick in half to 60” I bent them and turned out to be perfect.. so one thing I did, I left the threaded end down where it attaches to the trailer and I’m planning on screwing a “threaded flange” to the trailer. Pictures would help if I could figure that out..
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3620 |
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I removed my strut that was bedded with 5200, used a few Wooden Door shims and tapped them in between the strut and the hull Worked them in side by side until it popped off. Cleaned up the hull with a very sharp gasket scraper and was good to go. Did not take long so I put it back on with 5200, it is strong and works although many say they like the 4200 better because it is easy to replace.
Either one should seal fine against a water leak. |
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Progress on my boat has been very slow but I'm just about ready to paint the bilge. The fiberglass ferring has been quite tedious... apply then sand, apply then sand... I'm sure I'm going overboard with it but I wanted a very smooth bilge to avoid collecting dirt, oil, etc.
I"m also cutting the loose plywood flooring that covers the bilge behind the motor hump. The piece I took out was in bad shape so it is not reusable. That old piece also laid on top of the floor on either side of the bilge. Since the back of the motor hump sat on top of this piece of wood flooring (hump hinges were fastened to it as well), it created a gap between the hump and the floor. To fix this I wanted to have the top of the new piece of flooring sit flush with the fiberglass floor on either side per the attached pic. I plan to add a couple of supports to the secondary stringers to support the edge of the wood floor so it doesn't tip. Obviously the boat hull is going to move and flex some during use. To avoid potential pinching of the boat hull/stringers into the wood floor during this flexing (and thus the wood flooring stressing the stringers and floor on either side, I will leave about 1/4" gap on both sides. My question is (and I realize I may be asking a open ended technical question) does anyone have an idea of how much the boat hull will flex and is 1/4" on each side enough? |
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3337 |
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Looks great!
however 1/4" gap on each side just sounds huge to me Thats a 1/2" when the board is all the way to one side Flexing shmexing, non issue i believe. like milkjug polyethelene thickness each side is sufficient If your panel is built rigid enough, i don't think you need to compromise the muffler wells with something fixed over them to support only 6" of cantilevered panel.. But i would keep it modest if adding a lip. Have you considered making all the over-bilge pieces out of coosa with a couple layups on their top and bottom surface? When there is any water present, these surfaces get the most exposure If i were working on another project, and i will eventually, thats the way i would go. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Thanks Ski for the input.
Agreed, 1/4" prob is a lot on each side. but I really didn't want to stress the boat in places it wasn't meant to be stressed. The flooring piece will have a piece of blocking on the bottom where the hump hinge bolts to the floor so this will keep the floor from wandering around between stringers. I wouldn't think the flex would be much perp to the gunnels since the transom in the back and the bulkhead and flooring under the seats would stiffen the hull. But I wasn't sure enough to move ahead without more experienced opinions. Unless someone else has a vastly different opinion of the amount of movement I'll probably cut the gap in half and move forward. I'll need a support on the secondary stringers regardless. |
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Allen, I'm curious as to why you feel or who told you the area is under stress. |
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andrewmarani
Senior Member Joined: May-31-2005 Location: Baltimore, MD Status: Offline Points: 224 |
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Don't you need to leave enough space for the carpet on either side of the gap to turn down into the gap? Or to have a plastic T cover the raw carpet edges? My boat has the plastic T stapled to the removable plywood through the down leg of the T.
If NOT using the plastic T, I would think that leaving enough of a gap for two layers of turned down carpet to fit snug, but not hard against each other would give you room for flex but not allow the plywood to move around. If using the plastic T, I would make the gap on each side between boards the thickness of the down leg of the T plus no more than an 1/8". A free 1/4" on either side is too much space. |
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Builder
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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My concern is generated more from "what if" rather than certainty. That is I presume that the boat flexes to some degree when splashing thru the water/waves, If the boat were to flex in an axis perp to the gunnels and close the distance between stingers, I didn't want the plywood floor to suddenly be the stiffest member in resistance to the flexing and thus introduce stress where it touches the secondary stringers, perhaps cracking fiberglass or breaking the stringer loose from the hull.
Again, this is all supposition and I may be over thinking it. But given the amount of time and effort that's gone into this project I didn't want to run the risk of damaging my work without getting more expert opinions. |
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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I plan on using the vinyl transition strip to cover the gap. So yes, the gap would be reduced by the thickness of the down leg.
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3337 |
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Maybe if one were driving about with the deck off the boat but he hull and deck are not only 'twice' as thick as its contemporaries but the hull/deck combination creates a reinforced incompressible box structure that inhibits movement in that plane, as well as others..
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3337 |
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thats one way, but If your gaps are tight and square, and use a proper latex adhesive, you can get a barely perceivable transition just laying down the carpet then scoring the gap with a razor after its dry, no plastic trim or bunching of material
for example, this is after 24 seasons of use since install.. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Very Nice!! Clean with no trim to come loose.
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3337 |
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Thank you,
Also, by keeping the carpet entirely topside, bilge water doesn't progressively wick up when sloshed on acceleration, and stain your hard work. eventually the oils and wetness and ..well you've seen its effects |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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You’re not getting a nice seam like that with thicker carpet... and if it ever frays or runs then you’re hosed. I would wrap it just a few inches (both pieces) as they have been doing for many years- the bilge water doesn’t migrate to the top side. You’ll need to adjust the gap for the wrap. 1/2” total is a bit much even if you go with trim (id aim for 1/4-3/8”).
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Update; After months of work on the bilge, spreading fairing epoxy, sanding, repeat and repeat and repeat some more, I was finally able to get the first coat of bilge paint on. Since this boat stays in the garage under the house and we're at winter's doorstep, I'm running out of weather suitable for doing this painting outside. That bilge paint is strong smelling stuff and nothing would shut this project down faster than stinking up the house with it. So in an effort to get the bulk of it done, I did leave out some select areas that weren't quite ready (around the rudder arm and stern and the bulkhead behind the battery compartment). I figure those can be done in small batches in the garage to reduce the fumes.
This is a major milestone on this stringer job! At least in my eyes it is |
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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BrianSki
Newbie Joined: November-04-2019 Location: Lakeville, MN Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Oh my! That engine is BEAUTIFUL!
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67 ski nat
Platinum Member Joined: July-19-2018 Location: Santa rosa Status: Offline Points: 1189 |
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Oh. The bar was just raised,
Much respect |
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Second coat is on. Looks like I'll need a third, but running out of suitable outdoor temps. Still have some areas to paint and touch-up.
BTW - I did decide to take the time to create a perfectly flat surface on top of the stringers for the engine cradle and furred out the stringer sides at the horizontal bolt locations so the cradle fits snug. It's subtle in the pics but it's there. Wasn't too hard to do using thickened epoxy with fibers and plastic wrap slip sheet, set the cradle in place with a spreader at the back in, weighted it down and let it set up. |
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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As I'm finishing up the bilge work and prep'ing for carpet I've decided to sand the hull gel coat down (it had some epoxy spots on it from the stringer work) and refinish to a nice gloss. I don;t think it's been touched in 38 years so it's in dire need of a refresh.. There are also a few dings in the hull that need to be fixed.
Has anyone ever tried to collect the dust from the gel coat sanding and mix with a clear epoxy to fix small spots in the hull? Just an idea I had for coloring agent to match the hull. |
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Clear epoxy isn't really clear & also degrades with exposure to UV.
Why not try to match the color with a kit? |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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I forgot about the raw epoxy and UV issue. I will have to go with the kit and match the color. Was hoping for an easier color match option.
Thanks for the input. |
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Progress has slowed dramatically of late. Finally got the 3rd and last coat of bilge paint on.
Still have a couple of spots to touch-up. Also making some wood trim pieces out of teak to mount the seats on so I don't have to put screws through the floor. Almost ready for carpet.!! |
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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About to start putting all the parts and pieces back on the boat so I'm looking for feedback on type of 3M marine sealant to use for each. I know some of these can be found in various threads but others are a bit obscure. My reason for asking is I was planning on using 5200 on my shaft strut (assuming that once I get it aligned it should never come off), but I read in another thread that 4200 was recommended.
So looking for feedback on the following; - Shaft strut 4200 (was going to use 5200) - hull fins 5200 on the base, 4200 in the screw holes ( need to seal the screws because the tips penetrate through the hull into the float foam) - swim platform 5200 - engine cradle 5200 or 4200 on the bolts? At first I thought 5200 but that may be too much. - exhaust tips - 5200 THoughts?
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Thoughts ? Yea now that you said that once it's aligned the strut will never have to come off you have just jinked yourself into hitting something and bending it. Personally I'm not buying 16 different types of sealant. I'd pick one and use it on everything. And I'd make it easy on future me by not using something so permanent IMHO
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
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4200 or sikaflex 291 on all the listed items.
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Thanks for the input. 4200 it is.
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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Nautique Newby
Groupie Joined: March-28-2017 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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After 4.5 years since I started this project I'm finally making the final push to complete it. I'm currently finishing up some last misc repairs/installs before I put the new carpet and engine back in.
While I was under the boat I noticed that the shackle straps I replaced during the course of this project are not vertical and there are gaps on the mounting bolts between the straps and the barrel. See attached pics. Both sides are the same. The problem is that the rear barrel on the trailer and the barrel on the leaf spring are not lined up. However I've got the leaf spring centered on the axil seat so I don't see how it can move to line up the barrels. BTW - I replaced all of the suspension components (leaf springs, U-bolts, bolts, shackle straps, bushings, etc). Am I over reacting to the straps not being vertical or is this an issue that needs to be fixed (which needs to be done before I get the engine back in? Thanks |
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I hope I don't screw this up!
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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How far do you plan to trailer?
It looks like someone used a couple washers when they replaced the original hat spring bushings with standard bushings. Adding some nylon face bushings instead wouldnt be a bad idea. |
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