Bad gas? |
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Posted: January-31-2018 at 9:51pm |
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It’s been about 6 months since I ran my boat on the water. I start it up once week in driveway. Today I took it out and when getting up on plane had a pop thru carb. I backed down and got it on plane but another pop 10 sec later. Fuel is kinda old thinking that could be it. Have full tank so thinking taking some out to add fresh gas or retard timing so I can just burn it in the boat. Would retarding timing help with old gas? When I say old 6-8 months maybe with ethanol gas. I know it could be other problems but leaning towards this right now. Starts right up and idles fine.
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3620 |
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I have seen old fuel cause issues several times over the years.
Bad fuel will burn with a unique smell. Hard to describe but you will know it is not normal. Bad fuel makes the valves start sticking. This can cause popping out the exhaust or intake.If the valves hit the Pistons your heads will need to come off for repair. I hope this is not our problem. Bad fuel burning will shellac the piston tops and valve stems causing the sticking. We usually see this when a person pulls the engine for overhaul then takes a long time to complete the job. Lawnmower shops usually post warnings not to start the engine with old gas. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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It seems like in old posts from last summer you talk about a low idle and always having to make adjustments. Did you ever get that straightened out?
Previously you mentioned putting a new carburetor on and having the same problems you had with the old one.Are you still idling on the transition slots instead of the idle circuit as you mentioned? Accelerator pump working right? How about a little background on those issues and what's been done to it lately as far as tuneup stuff like plugs, wires, type of ignition, timing settings, does the timing advance like it should? |
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Ya last summer pulled the carb a checked transition slots and reset it. Fixed the problem. I have an old carb spacer that’s original that is weird looking. Not sure if that’s part of my problem getting the carb to seal. I didn’t notice any weird smell from exhaust. I have a Mallory distributor that had cap and rotor replaced about year ago. Have new plugs and wires that I can put on. Going replace fuel filter today and make sure no water in it. Having a hard time seeing timing marks so going to have to put timing tape on and remark it.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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Once upon a time you had the spacer on upside down, I hope you changed the orientation like Gary S suggested back then. That's an original Pleasurecraft spacer you had pictures of The bottom joint to the manifold is a pain to seal. Many gaskets don't seal very well there and you end up with a leak.. It's pretty easy to make your own gasket that's a little bigger around the edges so it will seal right or find the right one like an original PCM gasket. I think I'd be sure the carb and distributor are working right before worrying about 8 month old gas being the only issue Make sure the accelerator pump is giving a good squirt too. |
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Ok. I still have it upside down. It didn’t look right when I flipped it over. I’m just going to get new one that is solid. I don’t know what I would do without this forum lol. Appreciate all the help everyone gives me. I post back with results.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3337 |
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My first suspect is a little condensation in the cap giving some errant crossfiring
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Started checking plugs this afternoon and 1 side of engine is a mess around plugs. I have raw water leaking from somewhere and it doesn’t really look like it’s the riser. All around the plugs is getting wet and rusty. One of the plugs was pretty bad had lot carbon buildup and was rusty at the end. Going to pull the exhaust to really see what’s going on. Could water be coming from the head? I don’t see any leaks running it on the hose in yard.
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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Is this rust and carbon external on the plug like where the boot goes over the terminal? Sounds like prime conditions for a misfire under heavy load like getting on plane. How much bilge water gets sloshed around? Is this a raw water cooled engine? How much salt water run time on the exhaust manifolds? Couldn't hurt to finish the tuneup stuff, definitely changing plug wires as part of it and see how it runs. Edit....I guess i was typing while you were posting pictures Looks like a pretty carbon fouled plug, what do the others look like? |
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Bilge stays pretty dry. It is a raw water cooled. I think exhaust is about 3 years old. 500+ hours. I didn’t pull anymore plugs think I wanted to pull exhaust manifold first keep crap from going in plug hole. That one looked like it would be the worst one.
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Pulled the exhaust today. Snapped all the bolts on the bad side 🤬. The rest of the plugs look good. Can’t tell where water was coming from. There was nothing left of that gasket can’t believe I didn’t have exhaust leak. I have new risers and manifolds coming they were due for replacement soon anyway. Is there anyway to check that manifold to see if it had a problem?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Cole,
You could just fill up the water jacket on the manifold and see if any water get's into the exhaust cavity but, it's best to make a block off plate and pressure check the water jacket. |
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Ok. thanks Pete!
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Ok after spending a couple afternoons drilling out the bolts that broke off I ended up punching thru the water jacket on one of the bolts. I had the bit marked with tape so this wouldn’t happen. I think this might of been where my problem was to begin with. Couldn’t find a leak in my manifold. Either way I’m replacing the head now. This will be my first time doing a head. Should I do both while I have everything apart? Where is best place to get one or a pair? I called summit and they gave me the number to the company that remanufatured the engine but they weren’t to friendly. This really sucks lol.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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Right, wrong or otherwise, people have been known to use a good thread sealer and never have a problem after that.
Some engines, not necessarily a SBF have threads that go into the water jacket on some of the exhaust manifold bolt holes with a stud in that location. You couldn'r do studs with a PCM manifold though cause the nut woulodn't fit without hitting the manifold.. You could bolt the manifold back on with thread sealer and see if it leaks before ripping into the engine further. If you decide you're replacing one salt water cooled head, you might as well do both |
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Interesting. I have new GLM manifolds looks like enough room for nut. I used reverse drill bits on broken bolts and tried EZ out with no luck. I feel like I’m at breaking point with EZ out. I drilled them all out to the max without getting into threads. They been soaking for days. I think I’m at the point of just drilling and retaping. Is this ok to do? I think I prob need to drill the manifold same size also... I really regret not putting the closed cooling when I got this longblock few years ago. Original engine lasted 25 years raw water cooled was still running when pulled it out.
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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re drilling bolts and retapping: That will be difficult to "pick up" the lead thread and not end up with a cross thread situation. I would keep trying with the left hand drill bit. worst case scenario would be that you would end up using a heli coil or better yet a Keensert. I feel you are in for a real PITA job.
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Ya figures. It’s already been a PITA lol. Got to add the Royal
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Here's more reasons to kick yourself, kits for a Ford are real hard to find since there hasn't been a Windsor marine engine produced in what 15 years? |
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Ya at the time I looked think it was about $1200. Think maybe skidim had them. Havnt seen one lately though.
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Leaning towards just replacing heads. Bolts are killing me. Doing some research on here seems like most replace with gt40p heads. I saw Clearwater heads mentioned quite a bit. I don’t really want to add any more work for myself going this route and wanted make sure wasn’t missing anything?
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2872 |
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Lots of options when you do a search on ebay for "GT40P heads"
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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Big Block Chryslers definitely go into the water jacket on the exhaust manifold studs, and require thread sealant to keep things from getting wet and steamy but it can work. If you need to seal on the threads then you are going to want to keep the most meat in those threads you can. If you have the wallet for it a new set of gt40ps is a bolt on improvement, well you might need to drill out the holes in the head to take the larger bolts required for a 351 vs the 302 they were designed for but you can probably order them that way. Can’t just buy one of those though have to do the pair. Is it possible that gets you into new push rods and rockers yeah sure so you will be at thousand with a set of gaskets and taxes. But she will move out noticeably better and the heads are generally good quality castings and have a decent chance of long happy life in the salt.
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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A set of gt40p’s are on the way. Hopefully they just bolt right on without getting into anything else like the pushrods and rockers lol. I’m prob already getting in over my head. Some of the best fishing and weather is coming up at the end of the month trying not to miss it lol.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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Did you get them with the holes for the head bolts drilled out for 351 head bolts?
If you didn't here's a thread talking about drilling them out yourself or having a machine shop do it if you don't trust yourself Also there is talk about what spark plugs to use in the thread. drilling heads |
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jblocal
Senior Member Joined: September-06-2010 Location: Stuart, Florida Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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I ordered from Clearwater had them put brass freeze plugs and told them to drill them out. I have a new set of autolites I guess I can’t use now if someone wants them.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Now Ken,depending on what oil I use,what make filter I choose,how often I change my impeller or what type of rag I remove wax with- whats the best brand plug to use? |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Deep cycle or starting battery??? |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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My therapist told me to only think happy thoughts after the battery and Quinners tool box incident.
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