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Boat dies when i put in gear

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LisaO View Drop Down
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    Posted: August-22-2017 at 12:42am
Hi, I just got new plugs and wires put om my 1974 Skier.The boat sounds good until i put it into gear in the water...then it dies. The firing order on the engine plate does not seem to work (anyone know the firing order?). Can anyone help please? My boat is a 1974 Ford 302 engine.
Thanks! Lisa
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautiquehunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-22-2017 at 8:13am
What state are you in?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-22-2017 at 8:46am
Do different states have different firing orders?

'74 was pretty close to the time they changed from the 302 to the 351 FO, what does the plate say? A pic showing the marinization would help. What size/type spark plugs does it take (5/8" or 13/16" wrench?)? The 2 FO's are 18456273 (351) and 18736245 (289/early 302).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fgroce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-22-2017 at 11:21am
LisaO welcome to the forum, what lake do you go to? How about posting some pictures of your boat. Have you been running the boat all summer and just started running bad? Or just getting it wet for the first time. A lot of guys on the forum are a lot of help with keeping the classic boats running. What lake do yall go to? Good luck on getting the problem solved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LisaO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-22-2017 at 8:34pm
Hi! Thanks for everyone's responses. I am in GA and I usually boat on Lake Lanier or Allatoona. I have had my boat for about 12 yrs and let her sit last year. Won't do that again. The firing order I used is one of the ones that you suggested. 18736245. But when I put in gear boat dies. (Someone described it as putting load on) can find out plug sizes etc later when I get home. I am not sure what marinization means tho. Thank you!
Thanks! Lisa
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-22-2017 at 8:51pm
Pictures
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-22-2017 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by LisaO LisaO wrote:

Hi! I am not sure what marinization means tho. Thank you!

The company that took an automotive engine and added marine components so it can be used in a boat. It's the reason Tim asked for pictures.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-22-2017 at 9:30pm
Lisa,
I'd like to ask why the plugs and wires were changed. Was the engine running poorly before? Did you replace any other parts?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote villthepill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-22-2017 at 11:49pm
Sounds like your carburetor idle mixture isnt adjusted properly. Put a vacuum guage on full manifold vacuum and adjust the 2 screws equally 1/8th turn at a time at idle. You want to achieve the highest vacuum reading. Google adjusting idle mixture screws and it will give you a step by step on how to do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 12:00am
Let's make sure the firing order is correct. Then, let's insure the ignition timing is correct before we move past the "last change". Petes right--why was the work done anyways? Was it sputtering before the wires and plugs? Maybe that ancient gas is simply not up to snuff any longer? Is it straight gas down there or do they make you use corn gas (10% ethanol)? Did it have stabil or other preservative in it when it was laid up a few years back?

Timing could be off if the plugs were put one position back or forwards--even if in the correct order.

Look where the light's best. That's what my engine mechanic instructor always told me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 10:40am
Originally posted by Nautiquehunter Nautiquehunter wrote:

What state are you in?


Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Do different states have different firing orders?


   

Welcome Lisa and yes Pictures of the engine would help determining what Motor you have and what the firing order should be. What was done to the engine since you last ran it? A little more details on what's going on will help us help you fix the issue. There are several of us CCFans that play on Lanier and try to hang out with each other on the weekends. Usually around Bald Ridge Marina.
"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 11:09am
Since she says the engine sounds good, I figure she has the right firing order now because if she had the other one it would sound anything but good and struggle to run at all.

On to the carburetor like Villthepill suggested.

Maybe needs adjustments or cleaning or a rebuild after sitting unused for a year and a half or so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 11:42am
I'm not so sure... I've seen engines idle remarkably smoothly on 7, 6 or even 4cyl. They don't take a load very well though. Using the opposite FO will get you 4/8.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 12:09pm
Nice thing about having old Ford 351 plow trucks and an old 351RR boat hanging around that I can do "experiments' on.

Picked on the boat today and went out and swapped the wires around to go from the 351RR firing order to the early 302 firing order.

Turned the key and it did a lot of cranking, some sputtering and almost sounded like maybe it might almost think about starting,.

Swapped back to the right firing order and it fired right up and ran normally.

That poor old boat, the things I do to it

EDIT see a few posts down, it runs on 4 if some dummy remembers to hook up the coil wire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 12:12pm
Keno you're a true lifelong learner. Who else would perform that experiment and report back!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

I'm not so sure... I've seen engines idle remarkably smoothly on 7, 6 or even 4cyl. They don't take a load very well though. Using the opposite FO will get you 4/8.


I've seen 4 cylinders run fine on 3 until you load them up. Could be a bad wire--always look at what you last did before it ran badly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by tryathlete tryathlete wrote:

Keno you're a true lifelong learner. Who else would perform that experiment and report back!


And on top of that, I get to report back that my experiment was done over again cause it was bugging me that it didn't start at all.

So now it's time to eat some crow and say it ran pretty good on the early firing order like Tim thought

A little voice in my head told me that I may have tried it the first time with the coil wire disconnected, so back out to the boat, rearrange wires, make sure the coil wire is connected. Double check everything turn the key and .........

It fired up and sounded pretty good, low idle a little lumpy but not bad.

It actually went into gear and kept running, but I didn't go for a ride to see how a v4 would run.

Thanks for questioning my answer and providing my entertainment for a little while this morning Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 12:36pm
Ha nicely done Ken, that matches my experience. Can't say I've tried running on 4 under load but 6 will get you up on plane pretty easily. 4cyl sounds remarkably good on the hose (no load).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 12:46pm
It sounded remarkably good in the water, much better than I expected putt putting around a little above idle speed

I didn't try to get on plane and go for a ride though.

It was smooth enough to fool you into thinking the firing order was OK at idle with no load..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 3:34pm
Time for part 3 of this experiment.

One of those other voices in my head said "what's wrong with you, not seeing how it takes some load? "

So..... off to the boat, swap wires around again, fire it up, same slowish idle, bump it into gear and it would stay idling and moving.

Give it any gas at all after that and it would backfire and stall every time.

Probably wiped out a power valve with all those backfires but did prove to myself anyways that, yes it will idle but it won't take any load with the swapped firing order

Swapped it back to normal, and drove back to the dock.with no problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 4:51pm
Thats what happened to mine years ago when I rebuilt the HM Ken. No Correct Craft Fan then all on my own. Bought a Crane RR cam they put the wrong firing order on the cam card. Started up fine but when I tried to run it at cam break in rpm it ran lousy. Finally pulled the valve covers and watched the valves. Lucky I didn't ruin the cam.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MourningWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 5:19pm
My question to the OP is the one Pete asked earlier.....how did it run before the plug/wire change?

'Cuz if ran good, then was worked on, and now doesn't run good, chances are very, very good that an error was made in the work done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 5:25pm
Keno that is impressive commitment and follow up.
I put you up for forum member of the year!
Nice follow up. I hope your power valve survived.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LisaO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 9:23pm
Hi, thanks to everyone for all your help. The boat did run well before the plugs/wires were changed. Problem is that they did not make note of old FO UGG! It was suggested that I change them because they had some hairline splits (damage) to them. I did drain out old fuel and put in new. I have to add lead to the fuel tank.
Thanks! Lisa
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 9:37pm
Lisa,
Who is "they"? A supposed mechanic?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by LisaO LisaO wrote:

I have to add lead to the fuel tank.

NO!! The lead "substitute" is a scam with a very high mark up that marinas love to push! Lead did add some lubrication that did save wear on valve faces and valve seats but not much. When it's time for a valve job, that's when hardened seats can be installed. If the "mechanic" pushing the substitute says any more about it, ask him if he remembers white gas or in some areas it was called marine gas. Guess what, it was straight run gas with absolutely NO additives and the old engines with NO hardened valve seats ran fantastic on the stuff!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 9:46pm
Are the pictures coming so we can ID the marinizer of the engine and help with the FO?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LisaO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 9:51pm
The guy who sold me the boat said I had to add lead. Hmm could have saved a LOT of money. The mechanic that suggested wire changes was auto mechanic. I uploaded some pics but can't seem to get em on my profile yet..do they have to be approved first?
Thanks! Lisa
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 9:54pm
Lisa - the profile pictures do need to be approved, but you can upload photos to the thread by using the post reply button and clicking on the tree icon.   you will need to save the photo in a size that is small enough to go on the server, i am not sure what size that is anymore, but if you can save it to the "email" setting, that is small enough.   there is another way to load pictures, but it'snot as easy to explain.   btw, the server keeps track of the photos you have already loaded and requires that you use non duplicated names for each one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2017 at 9:57pm
Lisa,
Are you trying to post pictures from a mobile device? If so, it doesn't work very well. Most will email a picture to themselves and then post it from their home computer.

Sorry about the seller being misinformed and the "mechanic" who has problems with FO's!


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