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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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yes the ribbing is what I was asking. Sounds like I could go without but Im sure a few extras wouldnt hurt thats for sure. I guess I wasnt sure how precise I needed to be on the distance between them.
Still working on my shopping list, but I keep waffling on the foam no foam. I think if i go with a ply floor I will do 3 layers of fiberglass in addition, 2 layers of 1.5 oz matt and a final layer of cloth. I was thinking 10 oz but maybe that is too heavy. Then using a thickened epoxy for the mating and filet and the 1.50z mat to laminate the stringers and finish with a layer of cloth. I was going to start with 5 gallons of epoxy. How does that sound for a start? Any big oversites or issues anyone wants to call out? |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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I am not convinced that you can get away with not adding extra supports if going foamless. Get someone smarter than me to weigh in (like Joe) but I would guess that a larger/thinner 2001 hull would need the reinforcement.
You probably dont need 3 layers of glass over the ply floor. One layer per side should be enough- if youre doing both cloth and mat, then alternate them. Start and finish with mat when you can (more importantly finish). At the seams, I would definitely plan to tape at least 3 layers, again finishing with mat when possible. 5 gallons of epoxy probably wont let you finish the stringers, let alone the floor. |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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OK Tim, I'm thinking floor and you are thinking floor but also hull. You win!
![]() Regarding the cantilever, maybe you missed this:
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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Ok good input there on the resin. I was planning on adding some extra supports if I went foamless. Just wasnt sure how many how often. So it is important to finish with mat? should I even mess with cloth at all and just mat both sides of the wood? Also I was planning on using the aerosil cabosil as a thickener for attaching the stringers to the hull as well as for filet. Sound ok? Any cons? I think thats what skibum used. |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Pete, if that connection between the hull sides and floor is structural (and not just a seal) then the layup should be sized appropriately... not sure if 3 layers will cut it. Supporting the floor from below is stronger though!
Mat will offer a better finish than cloth. It holds more resin and offers better impact resistance- so it would be my choice for the top of the floor. Cloth, on the other hand, has a very high strength to weight ratio and wont take as much resin... that would be my choice for the underside. Aero-cab is a decent choice for bedding... I think Buffalo used it too. You'll want a high strength filler for this, so Aero-cab and milled fiber were the 2 choices I considered (I used the latter, primarily). You'll need all of 10 gallons (plan for 12) for the stringers and floor. |
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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Gotcha, what do you think of the 10 oz cloth, do you think that 6 oz is heavy enough? |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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6oz is fine- it will make the curves a little easier. The 1.5oz mat will be significantly thicker than either.
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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now I called us composites and they suggested for on top of the floor to use two layers of the thinner biax. the 3/4 mat 12 oz cloth combo. He thought that would be ideal for workability and strength. has anyone worked with that? Is it easy enough to form on the corners?
Also I think I have convinced myself to skip the foam. Too many people I respect on this site say you dont need it (eric, pete, joe for e.g.)and the more research I do the more I think I should go without. If I pull a titanic I expect you guys to rescue me. |
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eric lavine ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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surely dont go by what i say, but the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, ah I think you will see if you build the bottem correctly it will take a half a day for the cavities to fill with water, under the floor you build watertight bulkheads which will also serve as your gussets, with drain holes at the bottems
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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what if you didnt put drain holes in them and just made them water/airtight wouldnt that serve as a flotation cell, unless you had a hull breach (e.g. Titanic)
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67425ks ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: August-11-2010 Location: kansas Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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This may have been posted elsewhere but I always wondered if you could just order a metric butt load of hollow poly balls from somewhere like mcmaster and jam them in the compartments in place of the foam? If youre really resourceful (cheap) you could take your family to dinner at mcdonalds and steal as many as you can from the ball pit.
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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I saw an episode of mythbusters once when they floated a sunken boat by jamming it full of pingpong balls. It worked. |
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Gary S ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I'm a no foam person after seeing how my American Skier with no foam held up.But I'm curious- is there no foam that will work? closed cell?
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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well the foam from us composites is closed cell but they even say on their site that after prolonged exposure to water it loses bouyancy (aka retains water). Pete suggests using a spray in foam so as not to shave the top off and expose the cells. I have decided I am going no foam and wood floor.
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eric lavine ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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usually if you hit rocks your in shallow water, i dont understand the fascination of the foam thing. if you flip the boat the air will hold it up, if you stuff the boat it pops back to the surface, correct me if im wrong but does the coast gaurd require life jackets? are there guys out there that risk their lives by taking one of these boats deep see fishing 12 miles out?
hah, I know its an issue that gets thrown around alot, but, I have not really seen a good argument yet on its use, one just assumes because it is in there from the factory that it must go back in there. to me real it was a design flaw and corrected as the boats matured. if it worked well you still would see the same set-up today, evolution is the word im looking for |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Eric, Im not following you... Correct Craft still foams their boats. They did eliminate the wood, though. |
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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Ya, it is hard to believe at first that it is a good idea. I spent about an hour on the phone last night with my assistant (my dad) convincing him we shouldnt put it back in. He at first was like, well if you dont need it then why did correct craft put it in. He kept saying what if someone runs into you and cracks the hull open or something, then I said if someone hits you that hard have got bigger issues. He came full circle and now is on my side to skip the foam. I think I am going to install some kind of drain plug in either side so that it can be air tight but I can take the plug out and check on it and drain if necessary. I think I have seen some guys get some fittings, Ill poke around the net but if anyone has a suggestion, let er fly. |
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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I think the coast guard requires all boats have a certain amount of flotation right? |
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ny_nautique ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: June-01-2011 Location: Albany NY Status: Offline Points: 1215 |
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How about filling it with ping pong balls. Quick... someone do the calculation on how many you need.
A gross for $20. |
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- Jeff
1999 Ski Nautique |
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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I just placed my order to us composites. Ouch, now I am poor
![]() No money for pingpong balls thats for sure. |
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eric lavine ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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you gotta eliminate one or the other, so yes the statement is as stated, we are at the leading edge of seeing problems with the composites and the foamed boats 93 and ups....i believe you will see more problems up north here and more in the future.
logan, there called life jackets lol I believe the law is 22ft and under from the manufacturer, after that not required, i mean at home, they wont board your boat and site you if thats what you are asking, maybe the same as airbags in a car, allotta cars out there driving around with inoperable or no airbags in them |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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wish I lived closer to florida for two reasons; 1. its freezing in ohio right now 2. shipping my stuff from us composites was 150 bucks. Ouch!
Picked up my lumber this week and I think I got pretty good deals on everything. My Menards had douglas fir in stock! Who knew, the pricing seemed good on it as well. |
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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Got one secondary stringer out and started prepping and grinding the hull for the new one. It came out in one entire piece, it was barely attached to the hull at all. I lifted it out with my hands, but it wasnt that rotted.
![]() ![]() ![]() These covers were in pretty bad shape when I got them but they are starting to clean up. ![]() |
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bbishop1974 ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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justin,if you dont mind,how much was your wood order and how many 1x6's did you get?thanks
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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I got 2-12ft 1X6 and 6-8ft. We will see if that is enough. It came to around 150$ for those and the plywood. 2 sheets of exterior grade.
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ny_nautique ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: June-01-2011 Location: Albany NY Status: Offline Points: 1215 |
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Justin - would you mind sharing your cost for your US composites order? As you can see, I'm about 1 day behind you in my project.
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- Jeff
1999 Ski Nautique |
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Kristof ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-08-2007 Location: Bree, Belgium Status: Offline Points: 3392 |
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Nice work Justin!
And those valve covers look great, good job! |
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- Gun control means: using BOTH hands!
- Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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posted on your thread. |
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Jllogan ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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they had some real deep scratches before but I wetsanded them while watching tv last night with 600 and then 1000 and they have a real cool brushed stainless look now. I am still debating on whether to buff them back to a chrome like finish or just leave them brushed. I am worried the brushed will not hold up as long or get dirty easier. |
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ny_nautique ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: June-01-2011 Location: Albany NY Status: Offline Points: 1215 |
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Thanks for the info Justin.
Your 86 design seems to be pretty close to my 84. I notice in this pic of your project you have saved the fiberglass shelf that extended past the stringer and was filled with foam. Bottom left, just left of the bolt head. Have you given thought to how you are going to re-create this without foam? ![]() |
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- Jeff
1999 Ski Nautique |
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