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Transmission Help

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knewt View Drop Down
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    Posted: January-27-2007 at 5:14am
I have a 84 CC with a bad transmission. It fails going forward, some forward movement in gear but never kicks in when power is applied, engages and moves fine in reverse, failed while towing a skier and either fluid was low or old/contaminated. I have flushed/fixed the fluid problem with no change in symptoms. The transmission is a Velvet Drive.

I will have the transmission out soon to possibly deliver to a repair shop. But if I wanted to do it myself, can someone recommend a manual or place to buy a rebuild kit and/or parts. Do I need any special tools? Any ideas on cost? I have never done this before so any help is appreciated.
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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-27-2007 at 11:48am
nothing you can really do with the trans in the boat, no quick fixes, if you decide to do it yourself, parts should be under $100.00 unless you need a pump depending on where you buy them. get a price on a rebuild if you decide to go that route. it sholdnt be anymore than $650.00 to $750.00 if it is your paying to much.
eric
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knewt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote knewt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-27-2007 at 1:36pm
Thanks for the reply.

The transmission is out of the boat, no problems so far. I don't believe the pump is bad since it works fine in reverse.

Would anyone recommend this manual for the first timer? -
http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=L190022
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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-27-2007 at 3:03pm
A worn pump most of the time wont show up in reverse because your always at idle and you cant tell if it was slipping, seeing that its a 1984 chances are it's never been out of the boat and its just time for an overhaul. Did it let loose all of a sudden or did you notice problems before it failed? after time (20 years or so) the orings and lathe cut piston seal get hard or flat spots and loose thier ability to seal. make a list of the parts you need and we'll get you going in the right direction. pay close attention on dis-a$$embly and I believe this sight has a manual to help with dis-a$$embly and re-a$$embly. if you have any questions post them
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knewt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote knewt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2007 at 1:18am
Before I took the transmission out, I was able to give it some juice in reverse and it accelerated well. Because of that I think the pump is fine.

It let loose all of a sudden and I did not witnessed any noticeable problems beforehand.

I found the manual in the reference section, thanks! I will look through it this week sometime and see what I want to do.
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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2007 at 10:15am
when you get it apart, We'll tell you what to look for, the biggest problem people have with rebuilding these transmissions is they never figure out why they burned up in the first place, thats when they burn up the second time, then i dont feel sorry for you. Pay close attention on dis-a$$embly and try to figure out why it did, there is a reason it did or if not it would still be working. If it was age.....that is a reason but make sure you determine why and solve the problem
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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2007 at 11:08am
Here is a good way to figure transmissions out, Im bringing this up because you said reverse worked fine and its not the pump. Imagine 2 swimming pools in your back yard one being forward and one being reverse. the forward pool has a hole in it 1 foot accross and water is pouring it out of the hole. you have a pump 14 inches accross pouring water in the pool, but the pump is only pumping 11 inches worth of water, eventually the pool is going to drain. Now the reverse pool has a 6 inch hole in it and you have 11 inches of water pouring into it, eventually the water will overflow over the top of the pool. Transmissions work on oil volume and restrictions, restrictions create pressure, pumps dont, If you remove the restrictions (hard orings, worn shafts etc..)
you remove the oil pressure thus renoving the ability for the clutch pack to hold and then it slips
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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2007 at 11:39am
here is where pressure comes into play, if you cover the first pool water will never reach the top, but if you cover the 2nd pool the water will reach the top and you will start to build pressure, if you had a relief it would pop a relief valve. a transmission works on the principle of the second pool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whiz05403 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2007 at 8:55pm
Just my two cents, but if you are going to go through all that trouble to rebulid your tranny you might as well replace the pump as well. That would be a bummer to go through all that work, reinstall it back in the boat only to have the pump being bad.
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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2007 at 1:02pm
The pump may or may not be good its usually 50/5o, if you inspect and can feel anything with your fingernail its bad.
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87BFN owner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2007 at 5:45pm
I think so also, change the pump while it's out.. Why take it out again in the summer when your supposed to be out skiing. That's why god made winter, so we had time to work on the boat and not lose out on skiing time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2007 at 5:45pm
speaking of trannies Eric let me know if you find anything wrong with mine.
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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2007 at 7:46pm
got the interior out, and the motor out, good time to put a dripless in, also the prop shaft flange was wobbling on the shaft, I'll put on v-blocks tommorow to check for run out. I'll shoot some pics tommorow, also are you re propping? let me know.
The wobble on the coupling is a good indication of some mis-alignment along the way, the wear is egg shaped, you do have a 10-18-002 trans in there luckily because it has a very high capacity bearing in the back. Give me a call tommorow
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87BFN owner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-01-2007 at 6:24pm
sorry Eric didn't catch this post in time. I will call you friday morning 2-2-07. I am glad I dropped it off, I wouldn't have thought to check the shaft. I am thinking of going dripless and for sure a new shaft. Will talk to you in the morning about parts and ordering them. I am going to get an acme prop, have to find out what they recommend for it in the morning. I will call acme then call you.
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TRBenj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-01-2007 at 10:38pm
87, not sure if you saw this- looks like Acme has a new prop for you RH 454 guys: Acme 1260
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87BFN owner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-02-2007 at 5:30pm
thanks TRBenj just talked with acme today and that was what they said. It is supposed to be ready by the end of the month he said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2007 at 2:54am
Hi Knewt, the other guys will have you on the right track but it probably needs to come out ASAP. What's the colour of the oil? Gunmetal metallic is a bad colour for trans oil!!(I should know). Ours turned out to have popped the snap ring holding the forward clutch pack in (which did a few laps of the box and chewed lots of stuff up). As RPM builds it can't maintain pressure on the clutches and it slips. At the same time there's nothing holding the ring gear in its correct spot and it can wriggle back and contact the front of the pinion carrier (metal-to-metal) hence the spinning in neutral.    Some things that will cause this are:
Getting the big internal snap rings in the forward clutch pack in the wrong order. The slightly thinner one goes outside, thick one is for the diaphram spring to rest on. The thick one will snap in to place outside but won't seat - hence it pops easily
Too small oil cooler lines, causing too much back pressure.
Stuck pressure relief valve also causing too much back pressure. You can loosen the top hose going to the oil cooler, then rev it up in gear, oil should hose out as the rpm increases. It it doesn't the valve's probably stuck closed.
My contact in Perth, Australia that's been doing them for years says he always replaces the oil pump. Good luck, this was very frustrating for us!!
'82 Ski Tique PCM351W
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