Ignition timing - odd behavior |
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garykocis
Groupie Joined: August-15-2009 Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Never mind.... I'm twisted up on valve being open/close. I need to look at it fresh tomorrow and check the rotor position as well....
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10650 |
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Sounds like a plan |
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garykocis
Groupie Joined: August-15-2009 Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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I'm loosing my mind. After compression cycle starts (per thumb test), I rotate CCW until 0-degree mark. At this point, my rotor is points AWAY from #1 plug contact on distr cap. So, seems like I am 180 degrees off??? #1 piston is at top of it's cycle.
Is there a full-proof way to know what is happening with valves (open/close)? At this position (TDC), I see that #3 intake valve is stiff and #4 exhaust valve is stiff (stiff as in locked in a position). Both of the #1 valves are not stiff (I can wiggle the rocker arm). I believe that both of #1 valves should be closed at TDC - right? |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I think your over thinking this....
What you could do pull all your wires off the cap. then where your rotor is pointing to is where the number one sparkplug wires goes to. Then follow your firing order and connect up the rest of the wires. Or the possibly more difficult way would be to pull the distributor out turn the rotor shaft to where you want it and drop it back in. Then again where the rotor points to is where number one cylinder plugwire connects Problem here for the inexperienced is sometimes the oil pump drive shaft,which seats into the bottom of the distributor shaft,does not line up easily and fights you as you try to seat the distributor into place. |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3327 |
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Have we yet determined that Gary has not misconstrued the #1 cyllinder on a Ford, like some others have?
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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No your right just assumed đł and you know how that goes.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10650 |
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A quote from Gary K earlier in the thread |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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No cam/lifter pressure on pushrod means valves are closed. Sounds like you just need to reset you plug wires & you should be good to go. I think it is a miracle it ran at all, with plug wires 180 off! |
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âBeer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.â
Ben Franklin |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10650 |
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It would take more than a miracle to make it run timed 180 out There have to be some missing items in his timeline, such as when he took the distributor partially apart, did he take off the advance plate? If he did it's easy to put it back on 180 out and then your timing is ..................180 out. I'm not sure he's tried to start it since then Then again there is the TRBenj half miracle that we won't mention here, yet anyways |
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garykocis
Groupie Joined: August-15-2009 Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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ok, so I was also having difficulty believing I was 180 out. I repeated the exercise with an assistant (yes, my wife) and I pulled all the plugs to make life easier. I think I was confusing a suction with a positive air pressure. So, with a helper we definitively found the compression cycle. once I had that, continued to 0-degree mark and I'm confident this is the correct TDC position. Checked rotor... it is pointing to distr cap contact for #1 plug.
So, after a bunch of diagnostic work - I am back to exactly where I was at the start. I haven't changed the distributor position at all. I'm convinced that I had correct initial timing position from the beginning. Don't have time to try it tonight, but I have no reason to believe anything is different from what I had initial posting a few days back. ??? |
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garykocis
Groupie Joined: August-15-2009 Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Resistor picture as is:
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garykocis
Groupie Joined: August-15-2009 Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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I wanted to check the firing rotation which plugs were out. So, starting from TDC (where piston #1 is at TDC), I rotated the crank shaft 1/4 turn (8 times) and checked to see which piston was at TDC. I got the following:
0/4: 1 and 6 1/4 : 2 and 8 2/4: 4 and 7 3/4: 3 and 5 So, I conclude that this is aligned with the engine firing order, by working top to bottom and alternating left and right: 1 - 8 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 2 - 7 - 3 Eliminates the possibility of having the wrong cam shaft (I think).... |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Going back to original post, did you have a shop assemble the engine?
If so why not have them figure this out? Wouldn't it be worth a hundie? |
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âBeer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.â
Ben Franklin |
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garykocis
Groupie Joined: August-15-2009 Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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That is a wise and logical idea. The one guy I could find to rebuild the engine would only work with the long block. I tore it down to that point, and got it to his shop. He said he only does the machinist work. And, I regret having this guy work on it at all (difficult to work with, communication, etc.). I have attempted to get some info from him, but unsuccessful. I'm open to have a trainer pro help, but it won't be that person.
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MechGaT
Senior Member Joined: March-09-2015 Location: Chattanooga Status: Offline Points: 271 |
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The engine will run at the correct timing, but it wonât start there. It will start with more advance and idles fast. Maybe you said and I missed it, but whatâs the condition of your carburetor? When was it last rebuilt? We have been pretty far down the timing route, maybe it is like Ken frequently says âwhen you think it is ignition, look at the fuel.â
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'92 Sport Nautique
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10650 |
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Funny that you mention that. I had a conversation with Gary and that's something that came up, it was rebuilt a couple years ago, but that doesn't mean much, a lot can happen in a couple years of sitting or use.. He gonna look at the rest of the ignition system first like the coil and also bypass his ballast resistor since it's got electronic. ignition It does seem that he's done a very good job of verifying things as far as the timing. One of those little voices keeps saying vacuum leak vacuum leak (like a carburetor base gasket) and the higher rpm,s from the advanced timing let it start and run He'll know his engine pretty well when this is over |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10650 |
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garykocis
Groupie Joined: August-15-2009 Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Well, too early to crack open the champagne... but - pulled my carb to take a look and found some fuel in places it should be! so, if gas is leaking out I'm sure there was air getting in. going to try a gasket tomorrow, depends on what I can get locally (or I'll order from natique parts and be patient for a few days...
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10650 |
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