New to me 72 Skier |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3600 |
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David, looks like you have done a really fine rebuild on your boat. I know everyone keeps saying great job on the boat. Heck, I like the shop pictures in the background! Very. Nice shop.
As far as start up, do you remember what type rings you installed? Moly or plain Cast faced rings? Modern Moly rings will seat right away, boats always load the engine so as soon as you have it in gear and accelerate from near idle to 4,000 the rings should be seated. Cast iron faced rings take longer but same thing. Accelerate under load, idle to 4,000 RPM, maybe 50% throttle 1st try, then 70% and on a third time 100% from idle to 4,000 RPM and you should be good. Do not hold it at high RPM which builds combustion heat, when you hit 4,000 RPM back off bring it down to at least 2,000 and let it cool some. Should have noted first, make sure your timing is perfect before the break in is attempted. Idle timing can vary and not hurt your engine but Timing at RPM is very important. I think most state that 34* of timing by 3,500 is safe and works well in the 351W engine. You do not want more than that to avoid detonation. Some OEM distributors may keep advancing the timing till 4,000 RPM you should check so you can set yours up proper. Regardless of where it stops advancing, you need to know how much advance it is getting because at 37 or more degrees you risk detonation which can cause engine damage. Timing should advance smooth and evenly from idle to where it maxes out. So maybe 8* at idle and 34* at 3,500 would be close and safe. If your distributor springs are old and tired the advance may come in too fast and cause acceleration issues. Timing properly set you should check vacuum, if vacuum is 15+ inches and steady at idle your engine is tight and it verify’s your valves are all closing properly, no vacuum leaks and steady vacuum is a good indicator the engine is ready for use. Before accelerating it is prudent to put at least 20 minutes run time on the engine to let the valve train and other parts fully seat before hitting high RPM. The most important step is to not let it overheat or get hot at all, temps should stay very close to your thermostat opening temp, 140* or so. A new engine makes more heat than a broken in engine so watch this and be careful of high temps. After initial ring break in it is good to vary engine speeds for the first few hours use, again to help all engine parts mate well to each other. After a couple hours use I would not hesitate to use it for a ski run or 10 and enjoy your hard labors results. First oil change after 10 hours use because every engine build will leave some machining dust inside the engine and you want to get that out after break in. For engines started on a Dyno the operators tell me blow by pretty much goes away after the first engine pull on the dyno when using Moly rings. Boats and Dyno’s operate pretty much the same, you load the engine and accelerate against that load. It is perfect for breaking in new rings. Blow by falls off or is significantly reduced when rings seat in. Modern rings do like a pretty smooth cylinder finish not the old school rough hone. A professional hone will allow the quick seat of your rings. This is a boat engine break in so it is simple. A new car has so many more systems to break in that the procedure is more complicated. Differentials, Transmissions, transfer cases, brakes and drive lines all need to break in with a new car. You are only doing the engine.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I think Reid or Quinner offer a break in service. You just load the boat with Coors Lite to simulate passengers and equiptment and pick it up a week or 2 later. On a serious note- rings won't seat idling the engine
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2018/05/how-to-break-in-your-piston-rings-the-right-way/
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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Also, thinking about breaking in the rebuild. I have read as many threads as possible including the below. We have a freshly honed engine and new rings and bearings. Cam is original. Thinking we can bypass the initial 1.5-2hr cam break in and go to the 20hr break in. We have break in oil with high zddp. Will be running fresh non-eth 90 octane. The springs in our distributor look good and the weights are free.
I would like some opinions from you engine gurus as we want to start on the stand in the barn to check for leaks and get initial timing correct. How long can we idle to accomplish this before we need to be on the water to properly seat the rings.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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Donald80SN
Grand Poobah Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Denver, NC Status: Offline Points: 3888 |
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Looks bad ass.
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1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10704 |
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I don't think you can drill out the push in style plate and thread it but depending on how/where your push in tube is broken, there are a good number of push in tube replacements of various different lengths, or do what's described below.
The tube itself is a piece of 3/8 steel tubing from any auto parts store, sold as brake/fuel line/transmission cooler line. You get a straight piece longer than what you need and cut the ends off and bend and cut to length as necessary You'd have to figure out how to put the rib in the tube like in the picture so that it can't go too far into the pan or do what I mention below I've used a 3/8 collar with a set screw to act as the stop and brazed on a mounting bracket to make my "custom" dipstick tube before. The collar will be a little higher up the tube than the location of the rib. I can think of other ways to do this too. You get the measurements for how far the dipstick goes past the tube from the old setup. You'll have no trouble figuring out all the the measurements/collar location and figuring out where to put the mounting bracket A little oil resistant RTV under the collar will be a good seal to prevent any leakage. |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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Ken. You are correct on both. Our pan is a press fit with a square metal plate surrounding the dipstick hole. Not sure I have a close up.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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1980SN2001
Groupie Joined: August-01-2022 Location: Rocklin, CA Status: Offline Points: 96 |
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Amazing work and a beautiful boat! I am envious of your shop.
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1980 SN Project
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67 ski nat
Platinum Member Joined: July-19-2018 Location: Santa rosa Status: Offline Points: 1184 |
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Gonna look amazing on the water
Beautiful craftsmanship |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10704 |
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How about a picture of the pan that also shows the dipstick hole?
I assume that's the old press in tube on top of the bellhousing and the pretty ugly kinked and bent screw in one in the metal tray.
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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Got the ancillary engine parts painted and are starting the reassembly process. We did hit a slight snag. We were adjusting the dipstick tube to go around the exh manifolds and it broke. It is a press fit tube that was loose enough that we could easily take it in and out. We were going to try to fix it and re press fit. Now we are trying to come up with a solution for the broken tube.
After researching, I think they are the same as an old Bronco pan. I just can't seem to find a dipstick that looks the same as the one we have so I would love some help Thoughts on replacements? That said, the one we have seems long as compared to the one on the Ski Tique (the tube and stick could be equally longer which I think would be fine, just need to confirm the length of stick inside pan). We may need to take a trip to the Ski Tique winter garage (somewhat of a pain) and measure how far in the stick goes, total stick length and exposed tube length. We have another tube that is a screw in...Could we tap the hole on the existing pan? Were tubes/sticks for 302 and 351 the same? I don't think the pans were. Hoping to get this thing put together in the coming months but weekends are non-existent until after thanksgiving. Ignore the valve cover cap. We have a vented version that is painted. |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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Do a quick google search and chose retailer for the best price. We used Nautolex Shark. It looks good. Think we ordered from Defender Products. Amazon has it too. There are lots of online sources
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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ohio 93 snpb
Newbie Joined: April-24-2022 Location: streetsboro Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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where did you get nautolex for floor,looking to replace mine in 73 skier
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93 sn purple/black
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10704 |
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I've used that Vetus hose from MPS.
It's a little thinner wall thickness than the MPI stuff and it bent a lot easier than the 35 year old stuff that was getting replaced. You can also find Shields hose at about the same price. Here's an example in the link A little Ebay surfing can find some good prices too The distributor...........it's Mallory and it's marine. If you need springs for the flyweights, they're next to impossible to find for that age and model, but I think I might know this guy...................... Me being kinda cheap, I'd probably at least start with the yellow Mallory wires that you have now. For a good, cheap distributor cap look for OMC 982209 on Ebay.
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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Engine is back from the shop. Cross your fingers. We are hoping to put it all back together in the coming weeks and give it a go. Will probably be more like months. But currently we are trying to order a bunch of parts. Hoping for some advice.
Hoses: Going to order a bunch of new hoses. Looking at SkiDim and NP. Thoughts on the 3" corrogated exhaust from Marine Parts Source...seems very economical http://marinepartssource.com/exhaust-hose-slang75?gclid=CjwKCAjws9ipBhB1EiwAccEi1BUSJYNaJ6ZK_AvV6ZD6trIzANWCxgYJEDKY-R95C3r3Gr3DHVv8ZxoCwE8QAvD_BwE On the distributor. I think it is a Mallory. What wires do I need from ski dim (or should I try the yellow ones we have…not sure of their age)...I see mention of mallory under the 454 wires. Is there a source for the nipple for the fuel overflow for a flame arrestor? Or anyone want to trade, we have quite a few plain ones, some nice copper ones.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Looks really good. I like that new clearance bar much better!
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Donald80SN
Grand Poobah Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Denver, NC Status: Offline Points: 3888 |
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WOW !!!!!!!!!!!! Very Nice !!!!!!!!
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1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
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Morfoot
Grand Poobah Joined: February-06-2004 Location: South Lanier Status: Offline Points: 5312 |
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Can't wait to see this thing in person. You guys have done a fantastic job bringing this one back to her Glory Days!!
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"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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Still waiting on the engine. Painful. Hoping to get it in the water this season so we can work some kinks over the winter. Pushing our engine guy.
Got the rope minder replaced and it looks great. Very happy. And picked up the rear seat cushion with the correct tabs on it. Hope to do some real work on the boat in the coming weeks. We will see. |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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Got another 24 hours at the farm working on the boat. All we need now is an engine. Our mechanic got married last week and has been on his honeymoon so we haven’t heard back as to whether our block is good or not. We have gone through three bad ones, all cracked in the exact same spot on the back of the water jacket, hopefully the fourth is a charm. We procured this fourth block out of a 1978 Ford van… so hopefully water damage isn’t an issue.
This trip we put the snaps back on the back of the boat for the rear seats. Put snaps on the rear seat cushion. Also stapled down the outside of the Nautolex and put some trim rubber molding in to give the floor a more finished look where the floor meets the gunwales. Repaired some of the aluminum trim on the doghouse as well as started installing the hinges. Won’t finish until the engine is in. Also mounted the front seats to the floor and installed the kickplate and did a little more wiring. Got the stuffing box done too Next up (other than engine), batt cables, fuel line, batt box, shaft and prop, new rope minder (we got an original one from another cc owner!!). |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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Brett
Groupie Joined: June-13-2019 Location: Columbus, OH Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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appreciate the feedback, thanks
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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To be honest, I’m not sure I have an answer. I love the Nautolex but not sure we found a glue we love. One issue is that it is a vinyl so air doesn’t get in once it is laid. Our favorite was contact cement bc it is basically dry when you lay down the product. The 88 glue wasn’t drying after a week or so. And I don’t think I’d recommend the outdoor carpet glue we used either. I may try a vinyl flooring glue or use contact cement again. Sorry I don’t have a better response. If you do use the 88 give it plenty of time for the water to evaporate as per the instructions. I think that is what gets trapped and doesn’t let it set up.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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Brett
Groupie Joined: June-13-2019 Location: Columbus, OH Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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So what are your thoughts/impressions of using the Nautolex?
would you recommend it? did you figure out the 88 glue? post said it wasnt making you happy?
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10704 |
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Hey I've seen that picture before I'd probably hook the battery positive to the light bulb wire and touch the negative wire from the battery to the metal case and see if the light comes on (assuming the bulb is good) That might tell you that the case is the ground and the ground wire could be hooked to one of the threaded studs for the mounting bracket. Who marked the positive and negative on the back with what looks like some white paint? It doesn't look "factory" Do you know if the tach works? . If the case is the ground then using the connections on the noise filter, I might try 12 volt power to positive and signal to what's marked as the negative with a running engine to see what happens In one picture you have a handful of original Teleflex gauges and I'd say the tach wasn't original and was a replacement at some time Since you're going for period correct and not originality (speedometers, steering wheel etc), I'd look for a period correct looking tach that matches the rest of the gauges pretty good, if you can't get it figured out or it starts spitting out smoke Here's a picture of a 72 Skier dash that's mostly original with a Teleflex tach and gauges (Except for that depth finder where a speedometer once was) Or get in touch with AutoMeter |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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Need help. How to hook up this tach (pics below). We are used to 4 wires. This has 3 obvious hookups: the light, positive and negative. Thoughts on hooking up all 4 wires (pos, neg, light and signal)? Will the signal wire be doubled up on the pos or neg?
Also, heads done. Block was cracked in the back of the jacket so we are testing another one. |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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David the original was made out of stainless- don't know if that makes it easier or harder to find if it matters. I just looked up Taco but it is pre drilled on 6" centers like their rub rail.
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Tomrupp
Groupie Joined: October-14-2021 Location: MI Status: Offline Points: 73 |
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Does the high rope guard make it a 3 seater while pulling for water sports?
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Tom
94 Ski Nautique Open Bow 351 with Carb 95 Double Decker Aqua Patio with 50hp Honda (3 carbs). |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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On our minds but a project that is on the back burner. We need to find better aluminum stock. Half round just isn’t right and that is the best we have found (found that at McMaster).
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10704 |
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Just wanted to give them a gentle reminder and a couple of representative pictures to work with Gary
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Part of a roll cage Ken- these boys are from NC after all ! I think it's a work in progress-
[QUOTE=samudj01] Also bent a rope minder out of a 3’ half round stick. Not perfect but a decent first try. May try again. Think 2.5’ would be better as it would be a little shorter.
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