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3 vs 4 blade

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 3 vs 4 blade
    Posted: January-28-2011 at 11:39pm
I must be a freeking jerk. Sometimes after reading things over and over you finally you catch it. Yall have been so helpful in many ways I can not explain. Please excuse me guys for my stupidty and useless remarks. I have read more and more on props and just reading this I was not listneing. Thanks to all who are kind and generous. I have recieved this 540 three weeks ago and hope I do see a difference. I love this site and apperciate everything..   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2010 at 1:11pm
I also wanted to add a special thanks for all the help. Though I know some of you,have motors that are supped up and have had lots of
Experience with all kinds of props. Special thanks to all replies and comments and even the smart ass ones too. I keep my motor well tuned to
And I am looking forward to seeing a performance change. Joein thank u sir, tr, and all for help.
I'm glad this part is over, and can enjoy a even better performance 2001. ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2010 at 12:38pm
I orderd the 540 last night. I hope to see a better hole shot and not lose top end to much. Hurry up spring, I can't wait
For the first drop in the water. ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2010 at 12:31pm
If the MW Federal performance level is a 1, I'll give the OJ Legend a 7 with 8,9,10 going to the various ACME offerings depending on how you use your boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2010 at 10:34am
Hokrn, look for Alan's post on torque curves, you'll see that above 2500 and up to 3500 is were these engines make real power (stock form). That's why I always suggest people using their boats for heavy load wakeboarding that they should try to prop their boats so that it falls in the 2700-3000rpm range at pulling speed.
It's easier with reduction gear boats, in fact V-drives come propped this way stock because they are heavy wakeboard specific boats. On 1:1 boats you compromise WOT speed and need to watch not to over-rev the engine.

Have you ever seen a crank or bearings from a wakeboard engine pulling at 2000rpms? cylinder heads? valves? These boats were also meant to pull skiers at 3000rpms in their time. Fuel consumption even improves at pulling speed.

If you ever get a heavy weight load on your boat, let's say 1400lbs, drive the boat and tell were the engine smoothens and pulls better, it will be at +2600rpms were it makes torque.

Again, these are my thoughts and experience, and they are meant only for seriously weighted wakeboarding boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2010 at 3:36am
I guess I am not seeing what the throttle response issue for you is.

Even at 240 hp, the 208 even in my boat with a heavier floor setup than stock, and a fat sac and people in the boat, I never had issues with any range of power. The boat has always pulled extremely well with the 208, overloaded or not. I ran my boat from 02-08 with stock 240 hp and the 208.

These motors are tuned to have a nice wide tq curve. I doubt there is much difference in tq from 2100-2700 rpm. All I can see by running 2600-2700 rpm is great fuel usage for boarding speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2010 at 2:41am
Originally posted by horkn horkn wrote:

Originally posted by Luchog Luchog wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by Luchog Luchog wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by skicat2001 skicat2001 wrote:

Yall confuse me. I was thinking switching to a 4 but everybody on here said stick with the 3. Go with the 3. Now yall are saying 4. Huh! Have to rethink here then.

You need to re-read this thread. Very few people would recommend a 4-blade for your application.


Skicat, how and what for do you use your boat?

We already had this discussion 2 years ago.


Beware not becoming another "Mr 69 I own all topics" this is a common question when selecting props TR. stay cool.

I have the 3 blade 542 on my 80' SN and it performs very nice, but for finer wakeboard use I dont think it's the right wheel for 2 reasons:
1- Low rpms at boarding speed, throttle is not responsive. (2400-2500rpms)
2- stern too deep into water at boarding speed, dont get a nice wake shape, unless you like steep wakes. Need lots of weight on the bow.

This is being very picky about driveability and wake shape, for general use the 540 and 542 would be just great.

That said, I'd like to try an uncupped 4 blade 11.5'' pitch or a 11'', but again, that's just me.



Luciano, I believe the 208 is probably better than the 542 or the 540 for the reasons you mentioned.


I'd expect the 4 blade to pull a smoother wake but the 208 is 12.5'' pitch, and if I'm getting 2450rpms at 21mph with the 11.5'' I'd expect, as you said yours perform, 2100-2200rpms at 21mph with the 208.
That would surely not solve the throttle response. I think 2600-2700 rpms at boarding speeds will work best.

What I'm not sure is if I could custom order an uncupped 4 blade 11.5'' or go with a cupped 11''. I will email Acme as my dad will visit the states on april.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2010 at 12:10am
Ok it's done then,540 on order,any idea what oil I should be using
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 11:03pm
4 blades have more bling factor - oops, that just counts over at Planet Nautique!

I thouhgt this thread was very entertaining. Thanks much to the writers for their passion.

Merry Christmas to all you screw heads!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swatkinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by JoeinNY JoeinNY wrote:

I think that tim's assessment of not a mind blowing change between the 4 and a new 3 would hold with the 1:1 props as well Brian. Steve Watkins tried and didnt buy a 540 over his 4 blade at Reid's in the fall. There is a difference, I could tell Steve's boat didnt have a 540 on it driving it in an irreverant and generally unsafe manner.. but would the average family boater more interested in watersports than beating up his boat notice $350 worth of difference.. no.


Skicat,
It seems like the purpose of the thread might be dead since you indicated that you were ordering the 540. I'm sure you'll be happy with the prop, however, I'll add to this thread to tell you my (average CC owner) experience with props. What you need to keep in mind is that JoeinNY, TRBENJ, Hollywood and many others on this site have tested these props ad nauseum on our hull both with stock motors and highly tuned engines. At Reid's last fall, I asked these guys to drive my boat, give it a workout and then provide an honest opinion on it's performance, specifically with reference to the prop. Keep in mind that I'm running a 4 blade OJ prop and not the original Federal. All three commented that they felt that the 540 would improve all around performance.   While I don't doubt that hard data might show an improvement over my 4 blade and I do highly respect the above mentioned members' opinions, I tried it and there just wasn't enough of a difference to me to justify the price, but again I'm not as in tune with the feel drive, performance as these guys. Not many people are. However, I could tell immediately when Reid tapped the 2nd keg....had a slightly less bitter bouquet. Seriously, I think there'd be a big difference and that cost would be justified vs. the original Federal prop. That same weekend, I drove Morfoot's 88 with the old, original prop and there was a noticeable differnce b/w his prop and my 4 blade, but then again he's real hard on his equipment (beaches the boat, spills kool aid on the upholstery, runs 87 octane, uses Fram filters etc.)................................Kidding, Kidding!
He's meticulous as his boat shows

To sum it up, it didn't seem like you were hardcore enough in any one discipline, skiing, barefooting, cruising to really identify a single prop as being "the best". I'll bet you'll enjoy the performance of the 540, but would also be happy with a 4 blade like mine. Just keep in mind that these guys really, really look deep into this stuff. Don't get too bogged down in finding "the one do it all prop." It seems that all of these modern props should give better performance than the original, even for the average non-gear head CC owner. Good Luck!
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by Luchog Luchog wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by Luchog Luchog wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by skicat2001 skicat2001 wrote:

Yall confuse me. I was thinking switching to a 4 but everybody on here said stick with the 3. Go with the 3. Now yall are saying 4. Huh! Have to rethink here then.

You need to re-read this thread. Very few people would recommend a 4-blade for your application.


Skicat, how and what for do you use your boat?

We already had this discussion 2 years ago.


Beware not becoming another "Mr 69 I own all topics" this is a common question when selecting props TR. stay cool.

I have the 3 blade 542 on my 80' SN and it performs very nice, but for finer wakeboard use I dont think it's the right wheel for 2 reasons:
1- Low rpms at boarding speed, throttle is not responsive. (2400-2500rpms)
2- stern too deep into water at boarding speed, dont get a nice wake shape, unless you like steep wakes. Need lots of weight on the bow.

This is being very picky about driveability and wake shape, for general use the 540 and 542 would be just great.

That said, I'd like to try an uncupped 4 blade 11.5'' pitch or a 11'', but again, that's just me.



Luciano, I believe the 208 is probably better than the 542 or the 540 for the reasons you mentioned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by Bri892001 Bri892001 wrote:

Originally posted by skicat2001 skicat2001 wrote:

Last question? The
540 is a 3 right.


Yes sir, it's a 3 blade. The 542 is also a 3 blade. The 208 is a 4.

Awsome! Thank u! I'm ordering the 540 when I get off work. My x mas present to myself..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 2:27pm
Skicat..Yes the 540 is a 3 bladed prop... I purchased one after Delta props offered us the deals on Acme props. I was running the original Federal prop on my 88. I swapped it out on Sunday and I noticed a signifgant difference and was very pleased with it. I use mine for both boarding and skiing which is why I went with the 540 instead of the 542.

To add to what Joe said... Swatkinz pulled of his 4 blade OJ and put on a 540 to see if there was an improvement. I went with him as I drove his boat (an 88) the day before and both our opinions were the same. The 540 did not perform as good as the 4 blade and WASN'T worth spending the money to replace it. That being said my honest opinion is that it is well worth the money to upgrade from the original federal 13x13. I am curious how the wake will be this spring when I weigh her down for boarding but am happy with what I saw from a drivers point of view at various speeds. Here is the thread I posted my results.

Foot's 540 Run results
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emccallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 2:22pm
You are going to go with a 3 blade over a four blade?? Why?

Just kidding! Merry Christmas to all, and to all....I am done reading this thread!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by skicat2001 skicat2001 wrote:

Last question? The
540 is a 3 right.


Yes sir, it's a 3 blade. The 542 is also a 3 blade. The 208 is a 4.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 2:05pm
Last question? The
540 is a 3 right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C-Bass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 2:00pm
If you're not happy with it, send it back and try another one (542). I think most places are willing to let you do this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 1:57pm
For crying out loud
Thank u c bass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C-Bass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 1:52pm
For crying out loud. Buy the 540 and be done with it.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 1:48pm
TR,
I would like more hol shot
And keep the smoothness I have now. What are options?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 1:38pm
Skiing!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by skicat2001 skicat2001 wrote:

Some of u are not
Listening. I am asking
For a opinion. I understand
We have discussed this. It doesn't
Matter if I am just going for a cruise,
Or taking a few buddies skiing, or
Pulling my nieaces on the tube. The question is
Which one out performs the other?
                                          


It's you who's not listening, performance will depend on HOW AND WHAT you use your boat for. IT DOES matter if your going for a cruise, taking a few buddies or pulling tubes, skiers or boarders.

Any of the 3 props already mentioned, 540, 542 and 208 will outperform the stock prop in your boat. Now depending on the conditions you use your boat one would suit better than the other. I have already stated that I think the 540 is the best choice for you as it seems you want a "general use" prop.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 1:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by skicat2001 skicat2001 wrote:

Some of u are not
Listening. I am asking
For a opinion. I understand
We have discussed this. It doesn't
Matter if I am just going for a cruise,
Or taking a few buddies skiing, or
Pulling my nieaces on the tube. The question is
Which one out performs the other?
                                          

Lee, it is you who is not listening.

Define performance. Are you talking holeshot? Top end? Fuel economy? Smoothness? Wake shape? Wake firmness?

We have all been saying the same thing for 2 years now- it might be time to try a prop instead of asking the same question over and over!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by Bri892001 Bri892001 wrote:

Tim, thanks for the feedback. I don't want to miss out on any performance improvements that would make sense, but $$ comes into a play a little bit too.

I think if you still had a cast prop and were shopping for a new one, that a 540 would probably outperform the 208 if you were looking to eek out the best holeshot and top end that you could. I wouldnt expect to see or feel a huge difference though- so since you already have the 208, the 540 probably isnt worth the expense.

That being said, I would pose the question before the next reunion you attend and see if someone can bring a 540 for you to try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 1:27pm
Some of u are not
Listening. I am asking
For a opinion. I understand
We have discussed this. It doesn't
Matter if I am just going for a cruise,
Or taking a few buddies skiing, or
Pulling my nieaces on the tube. The question is
Which one out performs the other?
                                          
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 1:21pm
If as Jody alluded to earlier that the oj 3 blade xmp line is now more complete in terms of RH offerings then the 540's dominance may in fact be in question once again.. but one wasnt able to get an 13x12x1 RH OJ back when I was trying them out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 1:17pm
I think that tim's assessment of not a mind blowing change between the 4 and a new 3 would hold with the 1:1 props as well Brian. Steve Watkins tried and didnt buy a 540 over his 4 blade at Reid's in the fall. There is a difference, I could tell Steve's boat didnt have a 540 on it driving it in an irreverant and generally unsafe manner.. but would the average family boater more interested in watersports than beating up his boat notice $350 worth of difference.. no.

Skicat you dont have an 80 SN and you are not running silly ballast, if you have $350 to spend on your boat you want an acme 540 it is all around the best performing prop for your boat, and a big change over the stock federal or an oj legend. That is the first hand experience of someone who had the same hull and pays very close attention to performance.. take it or leave it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 1:13pm
SkiCat, it sounds like what everyone is getting at is that it can come down a little bit to what you like best, for the way you use your boat etc. Or maybe you just like the "feel" of one over the other and that's not the same for everyone.

Although, I'm definitely feeling a nod towards the modern 3 blades for your use. It sounds like the 4 blades give a little bit of stern lift and low end bite, which comes into play for stern heavy V-Drives and any boat running a lot of ballast.

I know Reid and others have been known to let people try (test drive) props on their own boats.

Your best bet might be to find someone willing to let you try-before-you-buy a couple of the props you're interested in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2010 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by Luchog Luchog wrote:

Beware not becoming another "Mr 69 I own all topics" this is a common question when selecting props TR. stay cool.

Im cool. I was just letting you know that everyone (you and I included) answered his exact question over 2 years ago, and provided a link since you apparently did not remember.
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