302 teardown

JoeinNY wrote: I have used tristatecylinderheads.com before and was happy (however since then they have become thier number one seller and gone up $150 in price) others have used clearwater http://cylinder-heads.com/products.cfm..

Either they gave you a deal or you got them awhile ago Joe,I just checked their site,they are the same price as I paid 2 years ago. Anyway they are a good deal,I had that much tied up in a rebuilt set 20yrs ago

The square fiberglass motorbox that CC started using in 1970 (though '81, I believe) should fit a 351w under it just fine. It was the earlier (through '69) swoopy glass boxes that arent wide enough for the larger block. I agree that starting with a 351w would be preferred IF you can source all the other parts (block, distributor, etc) for cheap. Since Chris had already started putting money into cleaning up his 302, then sticking with the smaller block makes sense- it will weigh a few lbs less too.

I have yet to see a stock 1st gen Mustang hit 50, though Ive seen a few 2nd gen Mustang/Skier/Tiques do it. The hp difference (~10hp) isnt big enough to blame... I think that, on average, the 2nd gen hull is faster. There are a few slow ones out there (like my Skier and Reid's '73 Stang) that plow or underperform somewhat, but Ive actually yet to see a Tique that doesnt bounce at high speeds without requiring weight in the back. Reid has measured the hook on both and says the 2nd gen has less... so that may be why.

I think the Tique with the single tracking fin tracks and turns 100% better than the un-finned boats (1st and 2nd gens alike), though Id never change the way the earlier boats handled... thats part of their charm. The 1970+ rudder may not be the best out there, but its certainly better than the "lillipad" rudder that came on all 68 and earlier Stangs. The recessed strut also seems to be a better design on the 2nd gens.

Chris, I just sent you an email. Clearwater (cylinder-head.com) should have the heads youre looking for. I believe you forgot an important detail. Youre not looking for "GT40" heads, you want the "GT40p" heads. Theyre not the same. The P heads flow better, are cheaper and are more readily available. Tristate has them too (at a $200 premium) though they come with better valvesprings and supposedly a better valvejob. If going with a cam with more than .500 lift (which a 331 might not mind) then the better valvesprings are probably advised anyways. I dont think Reid's Speedpro is that aggressive though- so youre ok with either set when paired to that cam.

If you are talking about external size for chevy blocks like small block vs big block.. then no ford is not the same. The 302w block is a different external size than the 351w block. The difference is not hugh and many parts can be shared with some work but don't assume anything will swap directly. The 351 cleveland block is not commonly found marinized but it is actually in the big block family.

A fresh 302 bored .030 over with the aforementioned gt40ps, mild cam, and intake will walk all over a 351w with stockish heads. The stroked 302 will also still fit under the doghouse.

As for what hull's are fast, and which ones handle better.. no real winner between the earlier (mid to late 60's) and later ( early 70's) mustangs/skier/skylark as far as I can tell. Neither handles worth a darn compared to any of the ski nautiques, and both could use considerable rudder improvements if you are actually going to see the mid 50s IMHO.

I have used tristatecylinderheads.com before and was happy (however since then they have become thier number one seller and gone up $150 in price) others have used clearwater http://cylinder-heads.com/products.cfm..

if you look at it this way, "347 is only 4 cu in's away from a 351"

This must be the intake?



Thoughts? It's in Ames, Iowa. I've got a buddy up there who can snag it for me an bring it back over the weekend.

Chris, when's your birthday? Oops, saw where we just missed it in Dec, but what the heck, if you stick with the stroker route and I'll give you one of those Speedpro-type cams, in exchange for all the beer I can drink at our next outing we both attend. And I saw a brand new intake on ebay for $109.00, IN IOWA, of all places. 331 vs. 347, I'll stay out of that one for now.       

Tim, I'm going to try and get the prop pulled and check everything out next week. Was busy finishing up a trailer for the Chris Craft this week so I can drag it up to Wisconsin today.

I talked to Reid last night about his Mustang and 347. His opinion was to go with a stroker, heads and a cam to get the most bang for my buck. In his opinion, stroking with out a cam wouldn't utilize the $ spent in the stroker kit as much. He also mentioned there are other options for good cam's at a cheaper rate, I'm going to do some looking outside of Cam Research just to be sure. If anyone has any good leads I'd appreciate the heads up or a better description of what I should look for.

That sounds very appealing to me as well Tim. Since it will be used as a workhorse when it's at our home lake towing kids and visitors around....and efficiency is always a plus. I'd really love to just dive in and do the whole thing right now, but the responsible side of me is saying to take it one step at a time.

If I can get this thing dialed in like it was before I think I will be in great shape. It fired up faster than any boat i'd been in and was smooth as silk, just a little noisy!

With these upgrades would I still be looking at an ACME 1210?

TRBenj wrote: Chris, congrats on the house (and shop!).

Thanks Tim, we'll see what happens. Could be a great situation if it ends up happening, if not I'm in no hurry to take on any debt!

TRBenj wrote: Tom makes a good point- you want to fully understand exactly what youre getting. What services will be included, what parts he's using. Then you can figure out where your money is best spent. 351w with upgraded top end = 320-330hp 331-347 stroker with upgraded top end = 300-330hp 302 with upgraded top end = 260-280hp 302 with head upgrade only = 240-250hp stock 302 = 220hp

If you all think that heads and a 331 are my best option with the stock cam and intake then I am open to that option although I would really like to have this thing done and not have to tear into it again. (I have a Skier that is dying for my attention!) If my math is correct, I would be around 270hp with the heads and a stroker kit, basically the same as a stock bottom end and an upgraded top end?

Tom, as stated above, the rods and bearings are in great shape, this motor only has 400 hours. They've already had everything in the hot tank and cleaned up. Yes, the cylinders will be honed as well as bored. Not sure about the crank, I'll have to check with John on that one.

I'm going to go ahead and call on the Gt-40p's today so we can hopefully see them next week? Intake and cam will follow shortly after.

One thing we haven't touched on yet is ignition. I know some like to stay with points but I am open to suggestions.

What new parts are part of this (new rod and main brgs)? What machine work is a part of this (Crank polished or turned and polished)? It's apart is it going to get hot tanked? When its bored is it going to get power honed for the correct fits?

I guess what I'm saying is I'd be asking for an itemized list of of parts and services I'm getting for my thousand bucks.

Whatever you decide to do, get the most you can for your money, and get it done right. If not it will cost you more in the long run.

Tim, what should I expect as far as a price range for what they are doing. I thought it was pretty fair considering they have time in taking the motor down, cleaning everything up, will be boring the block 30 over, magnifluxed and putting everything back together. The estimated labor cost was going to be about 700 bucks to do the entire thing.

Only reason I am price sensitive to the 400 is that I literally just put in an offer on a house not more than 10 min ago! Not sure what will come out of that but it may effect my thought process on this project. Good news is, it's the one with the big shop I told you about!

What is your ballpark estimate for the rebuild if you don't mind me asking?