'93 Ski Nautique 351 PCM Pro Tech Overheating |
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tsassman
Newbie Joined: October-06-2012 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Posted: March-13-2013 at 8:52pm |
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Can't confirm anything what the original service tech did concerning stat replacement other than the 160F that I took out(it was installed correctly) which should have been a 143F. All I know is that when I replaced the 160F to the new one it seems to work like it should.
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bhectus
Platinum Member Joined: July-04-2010 Location: Gator Country! Status: Offline Points: 1809 |
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+1 that's the first thing I thought about. upside down. |
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'02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold
'87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
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tsassman
Newbie Joined: October-06-2012 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Will be replacing decals in the next couple weeks. One good thing about the whole process is how much I have learned about my boat. This is my first one.
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dochockey
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 638 |
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Tim Ive been in your shoes nothing more frustrating than when the boat give us touble.
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1989 Teal Ski Nautique
1967 Mustang Harris Float Sunfish |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Good to hear of your progress. Sometimes the cause is right in front of you, but mixed in with extraneous information.
Your boat looks great. Have you considered replacing the side graphics? |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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tsassman
Newbie Joined: October-06-2012 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Here are some pics of my boat the day I dropped it off at the service center. I believe I am very close to solving the mechanical issue.
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tsassman
Newbie Joined: October-06-2012 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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I ordered a new 143F from SKIDIM today along with several other items and spoke extensively with Vince(great help). He indeed said it probably was a faulty thermo, but still could be a number of other things. I couldn't wait so I drove to Houston to pick one up from Palmer Power. I spoke a good long while with the manager there who also was very helpful. I showed him the old thermostat that I took out and he confirmed that it was a 160F. Remember in my previous post that when I found out the tech had installed a 160F I had him change it back out to the original 143F which he said he did. Obviously he LIED.
Well I got back home and immediately installed the new thermostat. Hooked up the water supply and started the boat the temp. rose to 140-150-160 all the while I had my hand on the top of the thermostat housing to see if I could tell a temp. change. At 165 I started to feel a difference, at 170 it stopped rising and dropped back down to 160 and stayed there. I let it run there at about 1,000 rpm for about 5 minutes feeling spots on the engine, checking water flow out the back. I felt safe to rev to about 1,500 with not much change. I decided to install my fresh water strainer back inline, had to go to local auto parts store to obtain new o-ring. I installed the strainer along with reconfiguring my water hookup. I this time used a 5 gallon bucket to let the water hose fill the bucket and let the motor pull the water from the bucket. With the bucket full and water running over I started the engine. Same result with the temps and felt good suction from the hose connected to the engine. At 1,000 rpm and water on all the way, the bucket would still run over. At about 1,500 the bucket would stay level with the top, at 2,000 the water level in the bucket starts to drop fairly quickly. I feel pretty confident I have solved the issue, but the true test will be getting it into the river(hopefully tomorrow evening, have to work). Another step I want to verify is test the engine areas with thermo gun(hopefull tomorrow or Thursday). On and by the way I still have yet to recieve a call back from the shop where the original service was done(imagine that). |
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dochockey
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 638 |
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OK Tim lets back up a step or two
When running your boat in your drive you need to do the bucket method. this method tells us that your impeller is pulling water through the system. did you check to see if your impeller was good or are we taking the word of the mechanic ? get the new thermostat and report back you don't need a mechanic you have us! |
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1989 Teal Ski Nautique
1967 Mustang Harris Float Sunfish |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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And the best way to test either one is to suspend it in the water.If it sits on the bottom you will get a false reading due to the contact to the hotter bottom of the container.
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N2Deep
Senior Member Joined: April-13-2012 Location: Las Vegas Status: Offline Points: 141 |
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Or take the one out that is in there now and put it in water on the stove and see if it opens.
Could tell ya if the thermostat is good or bad and it could be something else. |
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1991 SN pulled by a 2010 Tundra
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Something just doesn't sound right here. Two brand new stats of different temps and both bad?????? What are the chances of that?
I would confirm that the stats weren't installed upside down and when you get the new one put it in a pot of water on your stove and heat it up to verify that it does open at 143 before you install it. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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TX Foilhead
Grand Poobah Joined: February-01-2009 Location: Kingsland TX Status: Offline Points: 2076 |
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It's really not that hard, you just saved a couple of years worth of gas. UPS will bring that thermostat from SKIDIM to your door a lot cheaper than 150 round trip.
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tsassman
Newbie Joined: October-06-2012 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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I also posted this on planet nautique so I will give the same update here.
After having done nothing to the boat since my last post(working alot) and waiting on someone to help me I took it upon myself to pull it out of storage to my house. As noted in my previous post the Houston service tech said he changed the thermostat. I am a below average mechanic and am leary about messing with engines. I took a chance and hooked up a homeade water supply system to my boat to check temperatures myself. I bypassed the water strainer and verified that I was getting water through transmission cooler. Learned a lot about how to do all this on these forums(thanks guys). Without the boat running I was getting water out the rear exhaust. Feeling safe to start the engine I did and temp gradually started climbing till it got to close to 200F and this is where I shut it down. I did during that time rev it and water shot out of the rear exhaust. Going through the overheating steps at SKIDIM this told me that the water pump was good. I decided to pull the thermostat myself and leave it out and check temp again. Started engine and temp never rose above 115F. WOW. This does tell me that I am getting water through the jackets doesn't it? I did this several times with the same result. Called the shop where the service was done and just so happen the tech who performed the service had to step out. Talked to the owner about what I had found and he verified that from what it sounds like the thermo is bad. As noted in my previous post the tech suggested that I have a machine shop pull the engine and clear the water jackets. He quoted me a price from someone he new at aroung $3,500 for the whole job. I will be ordering a new thermostat tomorrow or might even go to Houston(75miles away) and pick one up myself. I could understand that the orginal thermostat was bad but he installed a new one(or so he said) and when I found out he put a 160F in instead of original 143F I had him change it out. It still overheated after all this. |
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TX Foilhead the 2nd
Newbie Joined: November-14-2012 Location: TX Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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I forgot to add, look at that receipt carefully and decide if you still got a deal. Then, come here next time you have a problem and get it figured out then fix it yourself so you never have to get another receipt for having your boat fixed.
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Hmmm, might have to pull the engine. A nice slow-season job. But that would be milking the customer . . .
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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TX Foilhead the 2nd
Newbie Joined: November-14-2012 Location: TX Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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I'm goning to take this down a whole mother road here, sorry for the new name, I can't seem to get logged in as myself.
So we've got the water flowing and the ProTec isn't going into limp mode, and the point everyone missed is the manifolds aren't hot. So the problem is the gauge not the cooling system. It's always a god idea to have an IR thermometer around, pick up a multimeter while you're at it. First thing I would check is the voltage your getting at the battery, the to the dash, and finaly to the gauges. Before my last rewire when I added the buss under the dash I was getting 12.5 volts at the dash, but it dropped to 10 by the time it got to the other side. This caused havoc with the PP and most of the gauges were off too. I was running 180 to 190 most of the time. Once I got the wiring fixed I've got 12.4 everywhere I look, 13.7 with the boat running and everything on (lights, heater, blower, and bildge pumps). Its now running 155-160 with the 160 Tstat just as it always has. Another possibility may be the kind of thermostat. I have had issues with the cheap basic thermostat from the autoparts store opening slowly and causing the temp to rise to uncomfortable levels. I had to watch this happen in a pot on the stove to figure it out. The auto tstat would begin to open at the appropriate temp while the PCM one would go full open at the right temp. The auto tstat was closed to 200 before it fully opened. I'm in the group that says 160 is OK, I've been doing it for years, makes my heater work better and even in 90 degree water in August my boat stays below 170. I know everyone here screams about it, but I run almost identical temps to them. |
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jimsport93
Platinum Member Joined: February-20-2008 Location: Alpharetta Ga Status: Offline Points: 1749 |
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Tim, I know it sounds kind of simple, but have you tightened all the hose clamps (with a nut driver) and made sure the raw water strainer is tight (and the gasket is in proper order)?
Got the same engine in my 93 Sport and it will do the same thing after multiple hot and cold cycles during the season. Tightening down everything brings it back down into the proper temp range. I know the shop checked for hose clamps and cracked hoses....but did they actually tighten everything properly? I have worked in the boat business around a lot of technicians and sometimes they miss the obvious. Especially with the large punch list of things to go over. Just sayin! |
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Munday
Gold Member Joined: August-17-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 538 |
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I think I would verify the temp gauge first, and check the dash ground.
If that was all good then I'd replace the stat again with a balanced stat. Then I would go for the acid soak. All the heat is produced in the head area, so I think a couple of applications of acid soak might clean things up. Bob |
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If the only tool you have is a hammer,everything starts to look like a nail.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Time for a new marine shop. Verifying the proper, functioning thermostat should have been pretty high up the diagnosis list. Then again, posting accurate information helps too.
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kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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is a carb or efi engine?
I believe the 143 is correct for a carb engine and the 160 is correct for the efi engine. as far as temp readings I would be friggin nervous if my engine ran at 180-190 degrees... Mine runs 160, virtually all time... |
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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tsassman
Newbie Joined: October-06-2012 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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You are correct. My mistake and I have edited my post. It is a PCM 351 Pro Tech. Thanks for the catch. I just got off the phone with Karen( great help) at SKIDM.com(Discount Inboard Marine)and she informed me that they went to the 160F in '94. She says that I should have the technician put a new 143F back in, not that the 160F is bad just to help with the cooling issue. She also said that the typical running temperature for this boat is 180F -185F. Also, she said that 190 is typical. When is gets close to 200 is when you have problems. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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I agree with M3Fan on the Thermostat. A 93 era boat would typically have a 140 (143 actually) T-Stat. If someone did actually retro-fit a GT-40 Fuel injected engine in this boat, it may then call for the 160. |
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tsassman
Newbie Joined: October-06-2012 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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As stated at top all wires and connections were checked. I am planning on buying a IR gun to test it when I get the boat home this weekend. Thanks. |
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tsassman
Newbie Joined: October-06-2012 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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When I pick it up this weekend I will ask the tech. about the plugs and timing. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Some good advice so far.
Also, lets see some pics of the motor. Curious about a 93 Ski Nautique with a GT-40 engine. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21135 |
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There is not enough information given about the nature of the overheat in order to give you very good advice. There are a LOT of things that can contribute to running hot. If you could tell us exactly how and when it tends to overheat, then we can provide better advice on what to troubleshoot. Specifically, does the temp creep up at idle (especially after running hard), or at speed? Regardless of the mode, circ pump failure and corroded cooling passages are possible, but pretty far down on the list of likely culprits. Its likely to be something much simpler, with a pretty straightforward solution.
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65Cuda
Groupie Joined: September-28-2012 Location: Matthews NC Status: Offline Points: 97 |
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you probably already checked this, is there blockage in the exhaust line that is not allowing water to flow freely? Chack passage from exhaust manifold to stern.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Pete, who's to say it isn't pieces from a previous impeller? |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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Thier reasoning for dismissing the circulating pump is backwards, and therefore the conclusion is suspect. Intermittant block temp, with a known good RWP, with good temp at both manifolds and risers would be a result of a bad circulation pump. Could also be rust mind you but I have seen some pretty cruddy blocks cool just fine, and a very fresh and clean one with a bad circ pump (loose impeller) cause the exact behavior you are experiencing -- eventually leading to a valve sticking, breaking, dropping.
That being said - as mentioned if an engine is running hot always always check your timing with a good light and make absolutely sure it is correct. If I was really worried about rust with the water pump off I would pull the core plugs off the side and blow a bunch of compressed air everywhere i could reach and see how much comes out. |
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M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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That boat shouldn't have the 160 t-stat. A 160 T-stat will put your temp at around 180 or slightly above which may be what you are interpreting as an overheat situation. It should have a 140 t-stat.
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2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
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