Velvet Drive 71C rebuild trouble |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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Posted: September-21-2017 at 9:20am |
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Pete
Ya gotta admit, that's an excellent diagram though wherever it came from., I bet Tim would agree with me And good question on the plates Pete, who'd have thought he'd cram an extra in there |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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Yellow/red and white are the 2 common NSS wire colors. (White is the earlier convention).
Depending on the DMM, a continuity check may or may not reveal a bad NSS. It does not take much internal resistance to drop voltage enough to prevent solenoid actuation. I saw this recently on a freshly rewired boat (NSS was bad but tested good). |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Craig,
I'd like to add that the wires to and from the NSS may be white and not the red as labeled in the wiring diagram that Ken posted. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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Earlier you mentioned that your NSS had no wires going to it.
You never mentioned what kind of boat, but this 351 wiring diagram has what would be a typical NSS wiring job regardless of brand When you turn the key, power from the key has to pass thru the NSS to get to the S terminal on your solenoid. Maybe you have some wires just dangling or maybe not, but easy enough to wire up. Just don't put any extra wires in that you don't need Good job on the transmission by the way. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Craig, I'm glad we were able to help and you are now back out on the water. Regarding the NSS, I agree with Duane that the first thing to do is check it out for continuity with the VOM. The switch has a N.C. contact. If it checks, then I suggest checking if the actuator ball is mechanically going into the cam detent. Is the NSS adaptor plate mounted in the proper position? |
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Came home a little early from work and pulled the transmission and took the extra plate out. I got it back together and ran to the lake. Successful test! Everything worked great. Thank you guys for the help. I still need to know how to fix my NSS.
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Good call Pete |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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You asked about cable adjustment earlier.
If you look at the link below there are well written instructions on adjusting both the throttle and transmission cables [QUOTE=8122pbrainard] This is a link that's in the FAQ thread in the maintenance section. [/QUOTE |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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The definition of a master mechanic is he can make something work and have parts left over! |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3335 |
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If you drop the morse control, you will see different holes to pin the pivot into. Each one provides a different amount of cable travel. Perhaps its in a hole not well matched.
Also, Many marinizations have a extension bracket on the throttle horn, to place the cable and onto. This createds a longer throw at the carb, a longer arc, and more precise throttle control necessary for tournament skiing. Maybe your carb is missing that. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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At least you didn't leave out any pieces, you just put in extras.
Most rebuild kits come with the plate needed for a 72c (10-18) just to confuse people who are working on a 71C I think some of the 10-17's like a 10-17-005 or higher have 2 reverse plates too. Heavier duty with a reduction unit on the end of it. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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And Pete asked how many plates you put in
You just want one plate and the pressure plate. The beefier, bigger 72C (10-18) has an extra plate and also the outer clutch plate.is needed because of the extra plate You should be all set after fixing that issue 'cause that will sure bind up things with the extra plate in there |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Good luck with it then. When I rebuilt mine I had to replace my seal. It did not want to stay put.. Yours may stay in forever. Not worth the gamble to me.
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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It has the neoprene seal.
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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The manuals are kinda generic in that they cover several models and revisions. Mine only has one friction reverse plate but the manual talks of several.
Well that should certainly loosen things up. Now fix that NSS Did your pump seal for the input shaft have a neoprene coating on the OD or painted metal. NOT a fan of the neoprene OD seal. They can push out. fwiw |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Another thing....When I reconnected the cables to my throttle lever. I noticed that it has a tremendous amount of travel. The transmission selector lever only moves from forward to reverse. But the carburetor linkage seems to move quite a bit. Shouldn't there be some sort of stop on it? I realize that the carburetor will only open so far so why is my throttle moving so much?
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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It doesn't have any wires going to it. So where exactly do the wires need to go and be connected to? |
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RoosterFeather
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I went home at lunch and checked the cable. Evidently when I checked it this morning it was disengaged. I engaged it and everything moved correctly. The transmission selector lever moves like it should. I started the motor briefly and the transmission is indeed still stuck in reverse. On the way back in I remembered something odd when I took the transmission apart. I was going to write something in this post about it. My transmission did not have a steel clutch plate between the reverse friction plate and the reverse clutch pressure plate like the manual showed. I couldn't remember what the steel clutch plate was called so I looked in the manual before I typed it. This time when I looked at the manual I noticed at the section about re-assembling the reverse clutch it gives a reference to a chart 3 pages over. So I looked at the chart. Only then did I read that the 1017-001 series DOES NOT use a steel reverse clutch plate. Only a friction plate and the pressure plate. Well Crap! There's your problem right there!! So it looks like I get to pull the transmission and take the steel clutch plate out tonight!! Son-ova!
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Probably be better if it was aluminum. Shifter has about a 5/16 stud on it with an E clip
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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Now that's different Duane Looks like something Pete would've hacked up in the backyard But it works, probably stronger too |
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Duane in Indy
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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NSS is an easy fix, Just remove it and test it with a VOM. Actually you can test it still installed. One wire in and one wire out. One wire should terminate at the starter solenoid, small post. When you remove it then you will see how simple it is. It may just need a good cleaning.
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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[QUOTE=Duane in Indy] Another issue to look at is whether or not the Neutral Safety Switch is functioning properly. Very important that it is working. Sounds like the engine was started and then the trans was put into reverse. QUOTE]
Neutral Safety switch is NOT working. I bought this boat at the first of the summer and it never has worked. Honestly I don't know what to do to fix it. and..... YES I KNOW it is a HUGE safety issue! |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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I'm kinda curious what's on the end of yours Duane
A picture would make me less curious |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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KenO, That pivot may only be on the Morse shifter end. Mine had a different piece on the trany end, but he will get the idea. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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There is a pivot threaded onto the end of the cable and attaches to the Morse shifter. There is another pivot type piece that attaches the cable to the trans. Take that piece off of the shift lever on the trans and see if the trans will shift manually. Another issue to look at is whether or not the Neutral Safety Switch is functioning properly. Very important that is is working. Sounds like the engine was started and then the trans was put into reverse. At that point the shifter cable malfunctioned and would not move the shifter lever on the trans. Maybe a real easy fix. Hope so.
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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If you click on the link that says connectors that's what he's calling a pivot. One at each end of the cable
connectors or another longshot, maybe the cable broke |
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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What is the pivot? |
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Yes! |
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