Correct prop size? |
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PROPGUY
Newbie Joined: November-22-2016 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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I dont know why Delta would reccomend these props they are not well suited for ski applications...especislly if your alreaduy to high in rpm....agsin as someone pointed out it is all dependsnt on application if you are just skiing, not adding a bunch of weight on a DD SN (I dont know what a NWZ is) then a 422, 654, 668 is the best Option.... call Correct Craft!!! they have done all the testing..... if your adding weight then maybe a 1475 |
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mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
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You're right Tim...I was surprised they didn't just give the ole 422 tip and call it good.
You think those will run that high on the tach and lose top end? our ski friends have a 2007 206 with the GM 330hp and they run a 1598 13x14 0.080 cup 3 blade for pulling show ski stuff and that thing still runs like 50mph. Maybe just a super fast hull I guess, and it could be running 6500 on the tach I dunno lol I'm not sure what to go with, for the normal dude though 422 all the way. I tell all my buddies just go 422 and call it a day, you'll love it but I'd like to stay with a bigger fan. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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Those 2 props would allow the gt40 to spin up past 5500rpm, and probably scrub ~3mph. (This is assuming there is no rev limiter on the gt40, I have heard conflicting info on this). That was my experience with the similar 1868. Not good choices for all around use, but good for big loads.
Delta's advice in the past has been mildly interesting... be aware that they don't actually test many (any?) of the props themselves. Their data is collected from customers, with wildly ranging applications (hulls, loads, engines) in varying state of tunes (accurate tachs and gps verified speeds, I'm sure)... so consider the accuracy of the information vs what you typically get on this website... Even Acme's advice hasn't been spot on as of late. |
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mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
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If you guys are curious what Delta had to say for our application:
"Engineering came back with the following reply: If they are pulling loads (show ski teams, multiple skiers) such that they need a little extra power/torque, then I’d say Acme # 2160 --- 13.50 X 13.75 VR4B 1.00 .105Cup Otherwise, I’d say # 1792 --- 13.50 X 14.25 VR4B 1.00 .105Cup However, if they are getting a true 5000 RPM WOT on that GT 40 Engine with a good, new-like 1442, then it appears to me that the 1490 wouldn’t be out of the question. Nevertheless, I still think the 2160 or 1792 is probably the better fit." Both props were not on my radar but..........might have to give one a shot |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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Well v-drives (wakeboard boats) do (mostly) run 1-1/8" shafts, yes... but so do some cc dd's- most notably the python boats. The 13.5x16 (1-1/8") props work great as weighted/pulling props on those, the 13.5x17.5 versions are good all around props.
I run a 3-blade (1442) on my 1.23 NWZ and generally prefer it to the 4-blade (422) that I use as a backup. The 470 is still here on the shelf, the 1868 and 654 were not well suited for how i use the boat. The 668 and oj 13x15.5 XMP work good on the 6L 196, and have heard they're good options on things like the gt40 176, repowered (6L) Bfn's, etc. My NWZ couldn't pull either 5k rpm, which is about where it wants to turn. The 1490 may be an alternative for some of those applications, as would the new 3098 3-blade. |
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PROPGUY
Newbie Joined: November-22-2016 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Yes the 536 and 644 are for the wake board boats...I dont do much testing I have just been dealing with Nautique on props gor years, I even have prototype props here that dont exist.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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644 and 536 are 1-1/8" props. Sounds like you have done a lot more testing, personally, than I have, PROPGUY.
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3604 |
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I am still running the 224 and pretty happy with it. I have been skiing at only 15 off lately and I don't think that will change in my future so the wake has been fine and zero prop wash issues. If I could go 39 off I might be concerned. The best part of the change to the Acme 4 blade was the elimination of noise we had with the OJ. The boat will accelerate hard enough to pull my arms out. I don't think we ever use more than 1/4 throttle to pull a deep water start. I am curious what I would see different with the 422 prop but I am happy with the 224, the RPM at wide open will hit 5200-5300 at 1,200 ft elevation depending on how much load is on board.
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PROPGUY
Newbie Joined: November-22-2016 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Bottom line is if you have a SN direct drive 1.23:1 trans the 422, 668 or 654 are the best options per Corrrct Craft and 1000s of correct craft owners promo guys tournament skiers etc its that simple.
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PROPGUY
Newbie Joined: November-22-2016 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Go with a 1490 13.25x15.5 then, its a 4 blade.... I have a few 644s 13.25x16, or 536s 13.5x16 popular wakeboard props.
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mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
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Anyone ever run this? 1490 13.25x15.5 0.060 cup
I love the bigger diameter that the 1442 has, I'd just like it with 4 blades better! |
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PROPGUY
Newbie Joined: November-22-2016 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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The 654 will perform almost identical to the 422 but with a half inch less pitch the rpms will be about 150 higher, some say the wake shape is different also. The complaint on the 224 is the wake also, its larger diameter changes the wake and makes a larger rooster. This is for ski boats only heavily weighted or wake boat prop selection is totally different. Transmission ratios change for wake boats and vdrives so whole different ball game. Three blades run better on 1:1 transmissions, 4 blades run better on reduction transmissions as a general rule.
PS a 668 which was designed for a 6.2L will work also, it will just drag your rpm down another 100. it can be recuped to be a 422. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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The 654 has its place but it is not amongst my favorites for a HO NWZ. The expected use (all around, weighted for boarding, huge show ski loads, etc) plays a large part in prop selection, as does altitude. 422 and 224 are both good all-around options that should keep revs around 5000 at reasonable altitudes. Everything in the 15" pitch range will increase revs by ~200rpm, which is a little past the hp peak of a stock HO/GT40. The 1442/470/654 are good options if you either have a little more cam, or are willing to give up a little up top for some more low end pull. 4-blades should handle larger loads better if you're heavily weighted but the 3-blade Acme's are real, real close behind (and are more efficient up top). I do not care for the 668 on the NWZ hull but it could potentially be a decent option on a faster hull (like an '89). It does work well on the 6L 196's.
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PROPGUY
Newbie Joined: November-22-2016 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Mdvslant, The 422 or the 654 are the two best options for your boat right Chris Jemic?
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mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
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I copied all the 1" RH props from the ACME site and put them in a spreadsheet to compare and filter if anyone's interested in looking at them.
I've been trying to figure out where to go with a prop on our 95 Ski as well. Currenly have a 1442 that needs a little refurb. We've ran the 654 and 1442. I have a 422 on our sport but I've never ran it on the ski. I like the 1442 numbers a lot but I'm not a 3-blade fan...still prefer the 4's I think. ACME Prop Comparison Sheet with filters Also, I think we're running 46-48 5k on the tach with the 1442. 13.25x15 0.090 cup 3 blade |
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PROPGUY
Newbie Joined: November-22-2016 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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MrMcD, You still using the 224? I can rebuild it for you to Acme specs. or Ill buy it from you if your not happy and want a 422. I think I have heard the larger diameter of the 224 makes a bigger rooster and hardens the wake.
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PROPGUY
Newbie Joined: November-22-2016 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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The 224 wont change much, it is only .5 a inch bigger in diameter, but less cup. Your splitting hairs here. If you wanna lower the rpms a bit go to a 668 it has more cup. But it will only lower them about 50 rpm if you want more than that you have to add more pitch, you get about 300 rpm per inch of pitch. but more pich may hurt your off the line pulling.
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3604 |
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Tim, do you remember how the 224 and 422 compared? I do know most lean toward the 422 option but I don't remember why. I think the 224 hit my desire to lower the RPM at cruise speed a little better than the 422 option.
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gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 943 |
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Thanks, that's by far the more popular recommendation and with more research the prop I'll end up getting. There's a few more little demons I have to chase in the ol' girl first, but the list is getting smaller all the time. With any luck I'll have the new prop on and be able to actually test it a few times before the dreaded cold sets in. Then again, I have a nice selection of wetsuits...... |
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JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
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PROPGUY
Newbie Joined: November-22-2016 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Go with the 422 it is the best choice for this application. Some guys prefer a 654 or 668 but not most.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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Guess I can't read too good today |
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gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 943 |
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[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure where you're researching but the Acme website lists both the 422 and 224 as RH props for a 1 inch shaft.[/QUOTE] Yeah, typo. Pulled up the history and it seems I typed in 2247 in the search |
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JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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224 is 13x15.5, .090
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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I'm not sure where you're researching but the Acme website lists both the 422 and 224 as RH props for a 1 inch shaft. Here's a link to their ski boat prop page link 422 4 blades 12.5 by 15.5 RH with .105 cup 224 4 blades 13 by 15 RH with .090 cup |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3604 |
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I started with the 14 / 16 OJ 4 blade and my spare was the 14/16 3 blade OJ. Like you I was not happy with the RPM of my GT40 at 30 MPH and those props had noise at various speeds. Almost a howl type noise. Switching to the Acme at Tim's advice was a solid move. My RPM at 30 MPH is around 3,200 now so cruise speed RPM is much better. Top speed improved a little and it pulls great out of the hole with no more noise at any RPM.
My shaft is a 1" shaft the prop is a 224. I would like to try a 422 some day but have not purchased or borrowed one yet. I bought my 224 from TIm specifically to lower my RPM at cruise speed and have been quite happy with it although due to an accident I had to rebuild it and it is not quite the same after the rebuild. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Joseph,
I agree with Ken that the marking looks like "OJ". What props have you been dealing with that are forged? Big ones? |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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I think it says OJ upside down and backwards, unless you rotate the prop then it will just say OJ
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gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 943 |
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Removed the prop nut, and as suspected it is stamped 14 16 cup ...
But then there is this mystery mark (bottom right) that I can't quite make out and not sure what it would mean anyway. |
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JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Fill me in. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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Just so you know, the new CNC stuff from Acme and OJ is cast.
Here's a link to some Acme info from their site link |
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