Skiing Etiquette

Nothing new to add here, its all been said, except my 2 cents on my own situation.

First, agree with Hollywood, I believe it was. Big lake, holiday weekend, no rules no etiquette. That one's a given.

I am on a small lake, 250 acres, hard to believe you can make 160 acres work. A big chunk of our 250 acres: all broad coves, shoreline and entire skinnier west end of lake is a no wake zone. What's left is minimal but adequate. Almost all tubers on the lake. Mostly, but not always, they are out weekend afternoons, fine, lake is theirs. Ocassionally a renegade tuber comes out early weekend morning or evening. Like everyone says, they are just as entitled so fair is fair.
Our lake is too small to go somewhere else, so if I am out and they come out, I go in. I dont expect any etiquette from them. A few years ago, there were about three of us serious skiers. If one was out the other would wait till we are done. When they finish, number 3 went out. Worked great. There is a new guy as of last year. Nice redone 1980 Ski Supreme. Two kids, 11 and 8, older one wake boards, younger one kneeboards. When they go out, they are out forever, lap after lap after lap, 15 - 20 mph. Tears up the lake. He will come out when we are already out. When the time is right I will explain our old little rule of etiquette. I will explain that when we are out, we are only out for a couple runs. Whether its footin or skiing, one, we get tired fast and two, its a small lake, we mess it up ourselves. So the request is, if we're out, if you could just wait and watch a few minutes, that would be great.

Along the lines of other thoughts expressed above, I was surprised to see more skiers this year. Just new people learning which I think is great. Historically, there have been none.

One amusing story. We did a four man run on the 4th of July, to kind of supplement the decorated pontoon boat parade. YOu may have seen the vid of that and the disk/chair run, both entialed holding flags. My wife said she saw a day or two later(I was away at the time) another boat trying to do a four man pull. She sid they fussed and fiddled for an hour just messing with skis and ropes and the driver, the leader of the group apparently, in and out of the water a dozen times trying to get it together. They never succeeded and gave up. Not sure their I/O would have been up for it anyway.

HA, not as easy as it looks, is it Bucko?

   I'm talking about in the morning HW. Usually a few of us can pick a spot to drive a dogleg and we can get three/ four boats riding/skiing and everyone is content. Then some tool will come thru and start towing someone around the lake in a circle and screw up everyone elses line, and making a mess of the water.

Tubers etc are just going to ruin the water anyway. But I'm talking skiers/boarders that just can't figure it out. I'm no one special, as a matter of fact I consider myself a beginner wake boarder(skill wise) even after 10 years. But, I'm getting old and smooth water is just so much more enjoyable. If I have to hang out behind the boat bouncing off others wakes for 10 minutes I'd rather just pass and try again later.

   I recently reconnected with an old high school friend who just bought a place on our lake. He picked up a brand new Tige R20 a few weeks ago. He asked if I wanted to take a run and I obliged. We were the only boat out there around 8:00 am. He drove around the outside of the lake in circles towing me and after two loops the lake was so rough I tossed the handle. I got in the boat and showed him how to drive a straight line and keep the water flat. He is a very smart, successful individual, but just looked at me and said "huh, never actually realized what I was doing". And he has had a boat(albeit a bow rider) for over 10 years. His kids will thank me later lol.

   Course skiers are never a problem on our lake. They picked a great spot where they dropped the course in, so that helps. Those guys are also long off the water by 8am. I have only seen one or two barefooters on the lake in the last few years.

Mike

You know I sympathize with all the gripes and I've experienced everyone of them as well as all the wallies on the water that seem to be trying to kill me each weekend but in the long run I've stopped fighting it. I avoid it at all costs and when I'm on the water too late to catch the good water I just deal with it and remember how lucky I am to be able to enjoy one of my passions most anytime I want. If I get the good water it was a bonus.

Don't think it doesn't piss me off when "my" water gets screwed up but everyone has the right to be there just as I do. I've tried to change the world one moron at a time but that typically doesn't go that well so I take the high road and walk away. I've let people completely ruin my day on the water and acted like an ass in front of friends and company and I'm done with it. Only time I break that rule is if someone endangers my skier otherwise I go the other way, hard to do at times but if I didn't my head would explode from the ignorance some people are capable of.

Just back from river.. it was glass but the damn rowers were out LOL. You wouldn't think this would be a problem but they are all over the damn river with boats pointed every which way. Obviously these are novice clubs.

Faceplant wrote: Having restrictions isn't really that bad because most people are inherently late . Our no wake ends at 11:00 A.M. By 11:30 I have already skied and got a wakeboard run in all while watching the boat ramp wanna bees trying to get their boat in the water . By noon , I'm done and they're just getting started . I'm usually the only boat on the lake .

You are very lucky, our no wake ends at 10, there are always no less than 5 boats all lined up ready to go at 945, when I wanted to foot, I would go at 955, or when the first boat started, often as early as 947. By 1015 the 160 acre Lake is a wreck with at least 3 tube boat and even a couple boats just making hot laps, yee ha! I pray for rain when we are at the cottage...

phatsat67 wrote: They are all guys who don't own property and show up and completely disable any use of the public boat ramp.

This statement applies to 65-70% of the boaters on my home lake. As Hollywood stated earlier, It's a boating etiquette problem, not a skiing etiquette problem. Actually, it's more of a " The average person has turned into a self entitled,ignorant moron" problem.

   It's amazing how many people I see towing someone who will not only wreck the water for everyone else, but themselves as well. And they either don't get it or don't seem to care. I have had mixed results trying to educate people. A few have been very receptive and one flat out told me to go "*************** myself".

I have had perfectly good lines and water ruined by Jetskiers, Water skiers, Wake boarders, Pontoon boats, tubers, Donzis, fishermen, The Game Warden, and even a rogue Kayak or Canoe paddling right into your path. I have not run into any early AM surfers yet.

    I just get up early, get my runs in and when the meatballs get out there after 9-9:30 I get on the Jetski and jump some waves! There is zero good water after 9-9:30 on weekends anyway.I feel for you guys that have restrictions that keep you from getting out there before all of the fools. Everyone likes flat water, but no one really "deserves" that water more than the next guy. If you feel that way, you should be on a "private" lake.

Mike

Hollywood wrote: Slow no wake only works on tiny lakes and it seems to promote weed growth, making much of the lake unusable. There are plenty would-be great ski lakes around, that probably used to be, but after enough collisions or close calls probably got shut down. Or they are just too shallow. Or neither but PWCs, fisherman and skiers will still make wakes without the tubes.

I ski in a private lake pretty often. nothing but clean hard bottom where we start and drop in the shallow end!

Hollywood wrote: Slow no wake only works on tiny lakes and it seems to promote weed growth, making much of the lake unusable.

Kev - very interesting theory. I wonder if we could get some public funding to do a study. This might be the way to fund not just one but two ski lakes. Would build one that we would ski and use normally, the second one we would test different "No wake hours" then measure weed growth. MAN this is a great idea, I am going to start writing up a proposal and see if I can figure out how to get some grant money. Ski Lake here we go!!!

I don't care about fisherman in the least on our lake. They are all guys who don't own property and show up for fishing tournaments and completely disable any use of the public boat ramp. I have disconnected and moved trailers before during events like this.

About the only fishermen I show any regard for are our two neighbors and my brother. Other than that they are intruders I could care less about taking up most of my morning ski line.

About the only other boat out as early as I ski is a nice red/white 01 SN that foots and slaloms and runs proper lines.

I have given up on any thing post 9 am and just putt around enjoying the scenery.

boardersdad wrote: So while I don't like tubers, I try to view them as potential riders. The day all the tubers disappear we will have very few people enjoying watersports, and speed and wake limits will be more easily passed by those who want quiet. The trend around here appears to be to make the slow-no-wake zones larger, so be careful what you wish for.

You couldn't be more correct about the likelihood of No Wake Rules expansion with fewer users (at least in WI). I think next year I am going to go on the offensive with approaching tubers and asking them if they would like to learn to ski - that is a great idea.

Think its a problem with the equipment, every time I pull a tube thru the slalom course there is always missing buoys on the next pass

I applaud you for caring!

I also think it is good etiquette to put boat in neutral when skier, boarder, footer, even tuber is down and then troll back to skier in gear (unless skier doesn't signal they are ok). The only reason I feel it is ok to speed back to them is to protect them from oncoming danger.

That is a great technique, Tim...If you can't beat them, have them join you!
We have some young college boys as neighbors that like to ski the same place we do, but drive a crappy line and mess the water up something feirce. They are big kids so that's what we've done...invited them to ski behind a real ski boat rather than the under-powered Blue water... They now know the proper line to drive.
In many ways, I'm just happy to see kids that want to ski!
On a lake that is 26 miles long and a couple wide, you'd think that the big wake people would have the courtesy to stay out in the middle, but they want to be seen I guess.
My mantra: "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance"
Thank God it's September!

boardersdad wrote: I gotta say, some of the posts in this thread sound almost whiny.

It's true... this is where we come to wine!

Some of us are just frustrated with the times... moster wakes are the fad these days and everyone has to equip them selves with the best... damn marketing! On our lake, G boats and wakesetters are a dime a dozen and less than 1% are actually being used for their engineered purpose. In fact most of the novice boarders I see behind them have a hard time crossing the wake and wouldn't dare try to jump it. And yes, they will start at 8am and are only interested in tubes, boards and surfers. They punish the shore lines and water conditions. And I ask for what? At least when they are pulling their tubes they can use the ski mirror. Nothing like watching a 23' Cobalt headed right for you with the driver turned around watching his riders!!!!!!!

The Seadoos just seem to need to be by ski boats... And I just find it crazy that most people would never let a friend or child borrow their boat... but a 60mph rocket... no problem, have a few beers and have at it!

Yes, it's public water, and people can do as they please within the confines of the law... But that's not the point.

If it sounds "whiny" then I suspect there still may be a fundamental misunderstanding of the original gripe that barefooters and slalom skiers have. The problem with "everyone sharing the water" is that everyone's effects they have on each other's disciplines is not equal. Barefooters are most impacted by rough water- the least amount of wind chop or other boat wakes will make it impossible for that discipline to be performed at all- it's not just a "preference" for calm water, but a requirement to participate. Slalom is next rung down, especially if skiing a course, as calm water is required in that area to perform at a high level... A single rogue wake down the course won't necessarily knock someone off their ski (though it might), but it will interrupt timing and the run- a cut can't be re-timed to avoid the wake because the buoy is coming no matter what. Wakeboarding at a high level certainly requires calm water but a rogue wake here and there can be ridden through and a run paused- there is no fixed course or timing requirement in the sport unless you're practicing a canned competition run (again, VERY high level). Same thing for trick.

At the same time, you'll notice that the wake put out by the barefooters an slalom skiers is small, and their runs are relatively short in duration compared to the larger wakes and longer runs coming from the wakeboarders. Again, the impact each discipline has on the others is not equal.

Surfing doesn't require calm water last I checked, and tubing and Jetskiing are neither sports nor do they require skill, so they have no place sharing calm water as far as I'm concerned.