Custom 1965 Correct Craft Mustang build |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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I've only run across a couple sets of those, one set was on a 1938. Don't know why it had them, it only goes about 12mph... |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6107 |
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Kind of like the "spoiler" on my Toyota Corolla. I feel much safer knowing my rear end isn't going to go flying up in the air.
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“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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It was a neat boat, called a Zobel sea fox. Theyre called Jersey Speed Sniffs, people used to hop them up back in the 20's-40s but I think today most of the ones that are raced are new construction. 2 odd features about the boats is that they are completely flat on the bottom and have a steering wheel that comes straight out of the floor. The one we take care of has a modest 40hp. Here's a website about them and a pic of the one I take care of.
http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/JerseySpeedSkiffs.htm |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Jim,
For the convenience of others, here's a proper link. |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6107 |
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OK, Im a little confused now. How did we get from a 1938 boat that went 12 mph to a boat called a Zobel Sea Fox that is called a Jersey Speed Skiff. I can only speak to Jersey Speed Skiffs. Been familiar with those for years. ReidP/Race City Marine has owned two of them/does own one of them. The earlier of the two, several of us had a chance to ride in at one of the gatherings at Reids. We're not comparing plates on a ski boat to plates on a racing boat are we? Doesn't seem apples to apples to me. Speed skiff is designed to go 70s-80s and the plate helps it ride better...though you would never know, since it spends most of its time with nothing in the water but the prop and rudder. Plates on a ski boat to help it stop porpoising in the 40s, why not, give it a try. To help it go 60+, probably not wise, as has been suggested above. Trying to get these boats to go faster is fine, if that's what you want to do. Trying to get them to go faster than they should go is reckless. If you want to go 70+, get a boat that is designed to go 70+. They are a hoot.
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“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Larry,
I'm as confused as you are. No apples to apples and you don't put many people in a Jersey plus the hull shape as mentioned is completely different. I've driven both the reproduction Jersey as well as an original and the handling isn't even close to the 60's CC 's. |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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I believe it's a 1938? Zobel sea fox. As far as I know this boat is referred to a " Jersey speed skiff". Sorry for the confusion, I'm just making small talk about a boat I drove. It's just funny that somebody put tabs on a boat that could never benefit from it, awesome boat though, if you turn the steering wheel all the way in idle it will spin perfectly in place! I don't believe the tabs would help the top speed at all in my boat with just me in it, it feels about as close to perfect at 55mph. |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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This is fairly close to exactly where the tabs will go. The top of the actuator will be just below the waterline. aesthetically, this was well worth it to me, not just because I hate the way the cylinders look but I think it makes the back of the boat look too "busy" when they are mounted up high.
End result the tabs will probably be mounted another 1/2 inboard. The mockup on the boat is with cardboard. I have a guy that will probably bend them up for me. I made them trapezoidal to lower the surface area of normal 9x12 tabs because that would be a little oversized for the boat in my experience. The mockup is showing them fully retracted. |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Eether
Groupie Joined: October-20-2015 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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Nice job on the boat, I've read the thread in its entirety and it's impressive!
OK, not a criticism, just curious... It looks like from the pictures that you are significantly changing the moment arm from the original trim tab design. That -looks- like it may induce a lot more stress to the transom as well as exacerbate any slop in the hinge/mounting points etc. I'm no engineer, and don't have a clue as to the stresses involved at speed, but at the very least I'd consider beefing up the tab structure beyond 12 Guage it is now. Are you planning on glassing a backing plate in on the transom? Again, just curious.. |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Thanks!
Okay since someone asked I'll explain why it looks like I'm trying to reinvent the wheel! The kit I ordered has special short rams that aren't avalible in the other kits. Drawback to just ordering the rams is that they are the same price as a complete kit... So then I'm stuck with the trim tabs it came with and I can either buy the proper tabs (119 each) and I would still have to modify them slightly to accept the smaller rams. As for the geometry, the actuators are actually still close to the regular angle that they are normally mounted at, I think it just looks steep because they are mounted so close to the tail of the tab. I also have the tab more "retracted" than is probably necessary, but the tab has a lot of travel and it doesn't take much to stop the problem I'm experiencing. Mastercraft actually had a cavitation tab in the early 2000's that had an extension bracket mounted off the edge of the tab making the ram very close to parallel with the bottom of the boat. As for the back of the boat and reinforcement, I'm not sure yet. I don't remember how thick the glass is back there. If it's thick enough where the factory screws that came with the kit easily pierce through to the inside of the boat then I'll probably layup some 3/4" ply |
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Mojo
Grand Poobah Joined: December-06-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3104 |
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Jim,
Not that I have really any knowledge or otherwise helpful info to share with you on this, but have you really asked members on here or others with short hull ski boats if these trim rams even work on these boats? I've seen the old fixed trim plates on old inboard boats but never these huge things you are proposing to use.. I would find out awhole lot more before you drill holes in the boat just to find out that they may actually make the ride worse.. Its just a suggestion.. I think you did a wonderful job on the resto, and only my personal view, but they really take away from the boat (basically a nice way of saying they are ugly as hell) ... I think the transom will actually shed a tear when the first hole is drilled.. Anyway, good luck, hope it solves your problem and if it gets you out on the boat more, more power to ya... |
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05' SV211 TE
73' Martinique had:96' SNOB had:76' Nautique had 77 Tique |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Dave, When you have time, go back a couple pages and read the warnings. |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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I don't have firsthand experience with tabs, but on a jet boat forum a few years ago there was a discussion of the stresses on tabs. The word from some more experienced guys was that the force on trim tabs was not as high as you might think, at least on smaller boats, and that in fact spring loaded tabs don't even bottom out (actually top out?) with the water force. The main tab improvement as people went to larger tab surface was dual rams, not because the power was really needed to actuate them, but to stabilize the tab so there was less edge flex. Again, just repeating what I read, not sure if it applies here.
12 gauge sheet steel is pretty stout. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Mojo
Grand Poobah Joined: December-06-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3104 |
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Nope, not gonna do it.. ZZZZZZZZZZ |
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05' SV211 TE
73' Martinique had:96' SNOB had:76' Nautique had 77 Tique |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Brought the tabs to a tin knocker to see if he had a brake big enough to make the bends I want.
Since it's arctic cold outside I messed with the upholstery a little. This isn't permanent, I just quick stapled and taped the white to see what it looked like. I was surprised to see that I'm not a huge fan of the look, it's not very apparent in the pics but because the seat base is larger than the seat back the seat appears "upside down". I'll just sit and think on it a little more. |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Anybody know about how much the Mustang weighs with a trailer? I'm having trouble finding a place nearby that I could weigh it at
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Currently ordering a stroker kit for my jeep to go from a 4.0 to 4.6 which should help towing the boat, I wonder if there's any outlets that could give me a deal if I got a 408w kit along with it hmm
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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I didn't realize you could stroke a 4 liter straight six. How do you get it more fuel, or can you continue to run the stock program? I really enjoyed running that engine in a Cherokee and 2 Grand Cherokees.
Right, that's what you need, more power in that boat! |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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It's actually a super popular stroker, you make it a 4.6 by using the crank out of an 80's AMC 4.2, connecting rods from the 4.0 and custom pistons. You use 24lb injectors from a Ford 5.0 (already have those installed, easy upgrade) and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, thats about it! If you get into heavy head porting and a wild cam however, you need an adjustable map and time on the dyno. I'm going to keep it mild, I'm at 193hp 225tq stock and a mild 4.6 should put out about 210hp 300tq which I think will be sufficient. If I smoked something in the 351w and it needed to be rebuilt... It would probably turn into a stroker |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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I never towed heavy with my Cherokees, mostly just the '63 and a few utility trailers, but always was impressed by the way they towed. I'm surprised it was rated so low on torque, would have guessed a higher number. 300 ft.-lb. should be a big improvement!
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3238 |
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I have had a Cherokee and a GC with the 4.0liter, and an SX4 and a CJ7 with the 4.2 They pulled fairly well but the RE42 in the GC was not up to even the meager torque of the 4.0. I hope it works out for you, that Cherokee is very nice.
I have lost track, do you have a 5.7 in that boat? I can't imagine going over 331 with a 302 block. |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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My jeep has the 5 speed ax15 which is pretty stout and can handle about 350tq before it starts to get a little weak, my main reason to not do a LSX swap. The CC has a 351w with all the go fast goodies. Which reminds me, still gotta install the poly filled Mallory coil |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3238 |
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Suddenly I like your XJ much more. I had forgotten the 351 swap. YIKES!
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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People say yikes when I tell them i have that much power but go weeeeeeeeee!!! When they ride in it haha. Side note, I joined the ACBS Adirondack Chapter! Now I'll finally get to put the Mustang in the Fulton Chain rendezvous! I saw last year that everybody had a fancy wine and cheese plate in the back of their antique boats, because mines just a stupid ruined non original boat should I do two 40oz of Colt 45 and Doritos? Served on a plastic hubcap? |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3238 |
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This is a photo of a friend of a friend's boat from the Lake Geneva Boat Show sponsored by ACBS. This guy hands out Schlitz tall boys to people he likes who engage him at the dock. He told me he named his boat Schlitz because that is what boating is to him. Hanging out with unpretentious friends who enjoy boating, sunny afternoons, and a cooler full of cold Schlitz. I had a few tall boys with the guy. I think he nailed it. I didn't see anyone who couldn't relate no matter how much they had invested in their boats. I believe the ACBS gets a bad rap for the wine and cheese stereotype. You will hear a lot of good things said about your boat. The future of ACBS depends on an expanding base of members and yours shows what can be done by a skilled craftsman working with a medium that is unfamiliar to many of them.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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JPASS
Grand Poobah Joined: June-17-2013 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 2283 |
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Yes |
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'92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Jim, I too found this to be an interesting idea. Go for it! Yes, there are ACBS members that are "snobs"!! |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Haha you know in all my years of taking care of woodies and other expensive boats I've run across very few snobs. Most people that get their woodies taken care of by us tend to just be very passionate. One time this guy whos worth a couple mill brought us his very old Chris that had one of the spinning tachometers that just didn't spin. He acted all tough and stingy when he dropped it off but I thought he was going to cry when he saw I fixed it haha (it was broken for like ten years). It's one of the main reasons I haven't left the marine world, the clientele is always so happy when stuff gets done right
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