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Stumbling after 4-5k rpms

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tommer12 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommer12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 3:13pm
I think you expect us all to be PCM mechanics by day, and real jobs at night.    We are all hobbyist here. So lay off.

It was timed at 10 with the knock and 16-18 with it off.    But you dont have to respond. Continue sitting behind your laptop on your front porch yelling at school kids as they step on your lawn passing by.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 3:01pm
first off you can't change the 3600 timing you can only change base timing. Secondly if you had a regular 351w and added gt40p heads that doesn't instantly make it a ProBoss engine, did you also replace the Cam? did you also flash the computer to the ProBoss specs, hell know you didn't, and it's the F computer that drives weather it's 26 or 30 not your unskiiled mechanics.

so leave the knock sensor attached read timing if it's not at 10 BTDC then you have it WRONG, change it so that it is, then disconnect the knock sensor the timing should advance since all the knock sensor does is retrad timing.

You set base timing and the computer does the rest, get the right tools and listen or just go ....for all I care I'm done d*cking with your stupid ....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommer12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 2:42pm
I was looking at my 92 manual and the 93 manual online and they are the same.

The 351 standard timing is 18 @700 and 30 @3600rpms

351 HO (proboss GT40) is 18 @700 and 26 @3600

So here is probably what i should do....

gap my plugs to .045
re-time the beast at 26 degrees at 3600.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 2:38pm
What numbers are wrong? I cant think of a single reason why the timing would be any different between the base and HO engines. The only thing that changed between the 2 are the heads.

If you have a factory HO (Proboss) then you have GT40 heads, not GT50p's.

Pick yourself up a decent timing light with an advance feature- theyre really handy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommer12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 2:35pm
See, those numbers are wrong.   351 HO is what it is because I have the GT40p heads.    Im pretty sure my pointer scale goes to 30, but Id have to double check.

Using a standard light.    There is only one knock sensor on the back of the block.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 2:29pm
so called non existant manual that exists here on this site

static timing 10

700 rpm 18

3600 rpm 30


so which one is checked with the knock sensor disconnected? all of them? none of them? two of them? one?

If you don't have the corrrect style timing light how are you even setting timing guessing maybe? must pointer scales are not high enough to use a standard timing light and why a advancing timing light is required so that only the zero mark is used.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 2:25pm
There appears to be a difference of opinion here. No, there is no dedicated ProTec manual on this site as far as I can tell. Yes, the system is discussed in the 1993 PCM Engine Manual that both of you are referencing. This does seem to cover the intial timing of the engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by tommer12 tommer12 wrote:

I had a hard time listening to you because what you said with the protech was completely wrong. no I wasn't   There is no manual for the protech anywhere. So when you say keep looking at the manual, there is none. yes there is

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tommer12 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommer12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 2:16pm
Knock senser was off per the manual i have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by tommer12 tommer12 wrote:



I did re-time the beast. Started off at 10 degrees, finished at 16-18 degrees. I have not re-timed it since we went out. I dont think I need to since it seemed ok from idle to 3k or so.



so was the knock sensor connected when you set the interupter's timing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommer12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 2:12pm
I had a hard time listening to you because what you said with the protech was completely wrong. There is no manual for the protech anywhere. So when you say keep looking at the manual, there is none.

My manual says 18 degrees at 700 RPM, which it is. I did not time at 26 degrees at 3600... so possibly that is why its stumbling. or the spark plug gap.... Instead of smartarse comments, constructive input is usually the preferred input on forum boards instead of your constant last word bickering with everyone. You have great knowledge, and we all appreciate it, but to a point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 2:04pm
You didn't want to listen then, on either site, I don't think you've learned anything at all, beside you asked, I told.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommer12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 1:51pm
Thanks for the wasted post 79nautique.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 11:49am
YEA those PN guys got you all hooked up, too bad they're not to good at reading a manual and how to set the timing correctly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-01-2010 at 10:21am
I don't believe the carb needs major internal adjustments to cure your symptom.

If you gapped larger then .045 i would suspect issues but not if gapped.035

Sounds like a classic fuel supply problem.

I don't fully understand the protech timing method but you could be too advanced now. I would verify the system is not exceeding 36 degrees final.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommer12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-30-2010 at 10:32pm
I know, im waiting for 79nautique to tell me I f'd it up already. (jokes!).    yeah, Im hoping someone will have some insight if not gaping my plugs is what is causing it.   Before my heads a couple years back, I had a stumble and backfire issue around 3k. But I put in new fuel lines and new inline filter and plugs and it solved that problem. Ran fine.

Im wondering if the carb needs adjusting to the new heads.

wonder, wonder wonder right?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-30-2010 at 10:23pm
I know my GT40 manual shows the .045 gap as well. One of the 'real' motor guys will have to answer the rest of your question.
One question for you is whether there is a break-in time for new heads like with a new motor? Maybe it would have something to do with that. Good luck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommer12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-30-2010 at 9:59pm
First time out with the new GT-40p heads. Replaced last weekend, ran some test in the driveway for an hour or so at different speeds. All ran good. Solid idle speeds, etc. Between idle to around 4k, she is solid. No issues. after about 4k to 5k rpms, I noticed all of sudden it would jump a little, then continue to 5k, then 5 seconds or so later, start to stumble.

So either Im looking at timing or some kind of carb adjustment.

I did re-time the beast. Started off at 10 degrees, finished at 16-18 degrees. I have not re-timed it since we went out. I dont think I need to since it seemed ok from idle to 3k or so.

She ran good though. No leaks, (water, oil, exhaust) from the head or valve covers. Had some paint burn off. I had painted the exhaust when I had it off and the elbows must have burned away. (and the head).

So to recap-

- Replaced heads with new GT40-ps.
- Holley stayed on the intake, never took off. (nor adjusted)
- re-timed protech ignition to 16-18 degrees with 87/89 octane
- new plugs autolite 764.

Although, I just noticed this:   at skidim site, it says to gap for protech to .045.    Would this be my issue at the high end?

Would i have to gap the plugs, then retime everything??

Or do I have another issue with my holley?

Thanks fellas!
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