1979 351 EFI conversion |
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Farkum
Groupie Joined: June-10-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Posted: February-02-2005 at 6:46am |
Boating season is coming up quick here in MN and it was time to pull the old ski nautique out and start doing some mods to it again. I decided I was sick of dealing with the sh*tty Holley carb that came with the boat and it was time for a full EFI conversion for the 351w engine in my boat. My friend and I started collecting all the parts to do a complete EFI conversion to my 1979 Ski Nautique. We picked up a full wiring harness which he has removed all of the wires for the tranny and fuel pump from. We also got a in tank efi fuel pump that I am modifying to work in the tank of my Ski Nautique. This weekend I am going to the junk yard to get a 351w fuel injection intake manifold, injectors, distributor (although its going to be changed out with a nice electric one in the future), and 351 chip for the EEC IV computer thats going in the boat. I have also been looking into Ford cruise control and it seems to me that with the EFI conversion I am going to get almost everything neccesary to put full cruise control on my boat. Because I have all the stuff to do it in a car all I am going to need is a speed sensor and that wont be a problem to rig up at all. Next week I will have pictures of the wiring harness before and after hacking, and hopefully the engine after its been retrofitted with EFI. By doing all this I am planning on the following benefits
-Better gas mileage -More tuneability (better power curves) -Easy starting! -Smoother idle -Cruise Control (hopefully) I am not sure if the specs on this engine are exactly the same as if the engine were in a car so I may need to burn a custom chip for the EEC. If anyone knows the specs on this engine it could be really helpful. |
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1979 Ski Nautique
Will post pictures soon |
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AWhite70
Senior Member Joined: March-05-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 242 |
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One other thing you may want to consider is a beefier alternator to drive all of the electronics. I know the stock alternator in 79's is pretty wimpy (I have one).
I have heard of several people trying bolt on EFI systems for lots of $$$, having problems and switching back to a carb. Good luck, this project sounds interesting. One thing to note (and you may already know this) in a car the EFI system runs closed loop with feedback from the oxygen sensors, in a boat it will have to run open loop which probably means a new calibration of the computer. Additionally depending on whether the Ford EFI system runs on speed/density or massflow you will need a MAP sensor or Mass airflow sensor or both. |
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2635 |
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You will have to run a fuel line back to the tank also. On EFI, the fuel pump runs wide open all the time and the pressure regulator sends the extra fuel back to the tank.
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Tim D
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Farkum
Groupie Joined: June-10-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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I am going to be running closed loop. I am adding a oxygen sensor in, one on both pipes. I have a 103amp marine alternator that I am putting in the boat, that should be more than enough power for the entier system and the subs. My friend has done this conversion on a couple of cars and it kicks ass but he has not done it on a boat yet. I will keep everyone posted as to how it goes
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1979 Ski Nautique
Will post pictures soon |
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Farkum
Groupie Joined: June-10-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Yeah we are replacing the existing line and adding another line to the back. I dont trust fuel lines that are that old to take the higher pressure required for EFI. Also I am going to run another vent out the other side of the boat from the fuel pump (what would have been the line that runs up to the canister). |
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1979 Ski Nautique
Will post pictures soon |
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AWhite70
Senior Member Joined: March-05-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 242 |
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Where are you going to put the Oxygen sensor? Since the exhaust system is flooded with water I wouldn't think an oxygen sensor would last very long, much less work. I know an O2 sensor has to get up to a certain temperature before it works properly and I seriously doubt you'd obtain that temp with all the water in the exhaust stream.
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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Please expand on where you are going to put the O2 sensor? The way I read your post, it sounds like you are planing on installing the sensor in a wet pipe. Also, do you have enough clearance under the motor box for the mass airflow sensor...and what about a spark arrestor?
Maybe it would be easier to buy a Marine EFI setup from Holley. Plus it is tunable to the specs of your particular engine. |
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Farkum
Groupie Joined: June-10-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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I have not really looked at placement of the o2 sensor yet but I will this weekend. I may end up having to modify the exhaust. I will figure it out though and I will let you know when I do. I do know that wherever the O2 sensor goes it is going to have to be a heated o2 sensor to make it work properly because you are correct, they dont work until hot. That isnt really a problem, the heated o2 sensors are not that much more and they actually help o2 response. The entire air intake is going to be custom made so that the MAF sensor is off to the side of the engine (similar to how they fit them under a cars hood). As for tunability, Ford EEC is highly tunable with about $300 worth of laptop components that my friend already owns. He can datalog and burn chips all from his laptop. I will be able to use that to tune every aspect of the computer. Marine EFI setups are very expensive, so far I have the computer, chip, wiring harness, distributor, and alternator for a total of $43. In the end I will have about $300 into the entire system.
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1979 Ski Nautique
Will post pictures soon |
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workky
Senior Member Joined: June-26-2004 Location: Marietta,Ga Status: Offline Points: 206 |
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holley does have a closed loop system for the marine application.They put the o2 sensor right near the head in one of the ports,probably not the most accurate,but its in there.Ive got the directions somewere for this install from holley.I have fuel injection on my boat as well.
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Farkum
Groupie Joined: June-10-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Yeah unfortunately I dont have a manifold to look at right in front of me but I would like to put it as far down the line as possible without it getting wet. If I do it in front of one cylinder I am going to convert it to dual o2 sensors and at least put one on both sides of the engine I think. Like I said, I will not have the manifold in front of me until this weekend, then I will look closer at how I am going to do this.
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1979 Ski Nautique
Will post pictures soon |
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64 Skier
Senior Member Joined: February-08-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 415 |
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"Petersen's 4WD", August 2204 issue said to use the 225HP, 300 ft-lb efi from a '87-'93 mustang or 88-90 lincolns equipped with mass air flow sensor. The article won't be much help with the O2 sensor...that's a head scratcher, but it's a great start.
Lot of Ford EFI on e-bay if you need some parts. |
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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Sounds like you are thinking of all the pitfalls. Good luck and when you get it working well, PLEASE do a detailed write-up with pictures and post it somewhere. I applaud your effort, just make sure you make it safe for a marine enviroment.
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97sport
Newbie Joined: October-21-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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Farkum, sounds like a fun project. The problems I forsee is the factory E.C.M. needs all the inputs from all the sensors. i.e. map, t.p. mass air flow, etc. i beleive 7 in all or the e.c.m won't know what to send out. As far as the o2 sensor if it too close to the heads it may make it run in closed loop all the time. So much for easy cold starts. It will stay in open loop until it reachs 600 degrees, then go into closed for your fuel economy wish. I would install the bolt on holley e f i . What ever you do make sure of no leaks. Boats really smell when they burn to the water line.
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life is short live it!!!
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Farkum
Groupie Joined: June-10-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Thats where I got the wiring harness, EEC, and distributor. The sensors are all going to be new from car quest (I get a great discount there). Anything else is coming from the local junk yard U-Pull-R-Parts in lakeville. Dont worry I will definately be doing a complete write up with lots of pictures and I will include the .bin file for the new EEC programming if I have to reprogram the computer. Also if I have to reprogram the computer I will burn a couple of extra chips and if anyone else wants to do the swap I will sell the chips for really cheap. Everything will be done very watertight and very spark resistant so that it is safe for maring use. I have seen boat fires and I dont want my SN to fall victim to one of those. No corners will be cut on safety and all extra procautions taken will be in the write up. |
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1979 Ski Nautique
Will post pictures soon |
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jameski
Senior Member Joined: May-18-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 368 |
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I'm really interested in the cruise control conversion. I've put cruise systems on all of my vehicles and I've never spent much money on the systems (junk yard parts). But for boats, PerfectPass has quite a monopoly and their systems are WAY overpriced (IMHO). Let us know how that goes - their will be some major differences between car and boat systems.
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Farkum
Groupie Joined: June-10-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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The cruise control will be done with a reluctator ring and hall effect sensor on the output shaft of the transmission. It wouldn't keep the boat going xx knots but would keep the prop spinning at xx rpm and I think it can be done for under $50 once we get the EEC-IV computer and fuel injection in place. That is unless myfriend and I can figure out how to get an electronic pitot to talk to fords EEC computer system.
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1979 Ski Nautique
Will post pictures soon |
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jameski
Senior Member Joined: May-18-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 368 |
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Picking up an RPM feed would be the easy part. How would you connect to the throttle? On a car you just need a "pull"; on a marine application you need a "push-pull".
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Farkum
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Hey, its been awhile since I updated everyone on the EFI retrofit. I have go the entire wiring harness in the boat and ready to go. I mounted the ecm underneath the dash where it wont get wet. As soon as I have a weekend off from racing I am going to put the intake and throttle body on. As for the o2 sensor I used dual heated setup for when the ford guys go with true duals on there trucks. I did put the entire system together before putting it in the boat and tuned it with a trucks 351w, I am hoping that it will be close enough to run good on the boat. Sorry it took so long to get a update, I have too many projects and not enough time.
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guest
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How about using and electronic GPS to input to a programmable ecm (megasquirt, motec, etc.) |
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captan1
Senior Member Joined: June-02-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 180 |
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Hay, it's November now, what's the latest on the project?
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