1972 SN Promo Project |
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barefootdan
Groupie Joined: January-31-2012 Location: Manteca CA Status: Offline Points: 86 |
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Great job can't wait to see more
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Wisky Badger
Senior Member Joined: July-02-2015 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 218 |
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Excellent work!
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Wisky Badger
Senior Member Joined: July-02-2015 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 218 |
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Chris,
I am at about the same stage as you on my project and I have really been enjoying your thread. I have a few questions. Are you leaving the fiberglass that is attached to the hull in order to help set the stringer and floor height or is there anither reason? Will you remove it before you glass the floor or will you glass over it? Have you decided on a fiberglass schedule for your stringers? Keep up the good work, this boat is going to look great. |
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fgroce
Senior Member Joined: July-05-2016 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 350 |
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Question for the ones with experience. Now that the stringers and supports are all removed. Should he support the boat to keep it from sagging and taking on the wrong shape, while he glasses in the new stringers. Also what is enough support? Lift it up at both ends by the lifting rings and call it good. Just trying to learn some more about these boats and doing fiberglass work.
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FGroce
88 Ski Nautique For 28 years Now 2002 Ski Nautique |
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1413 |
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That’s a fair point… seem to be 2 schools of thought here some change stringers one at a time using the old to keep hull shape (that’s if the old have some strength left/still bonded to hull) this is a much longer way to work and awkward to work. And this way all out and replace which is quicker and less of a pain to work in… as you point out the hull will flex under foot… my view if you have extra timber say over 200lb then one at a time if the old has some strength left or use a kid to fit them under supervision. The above applies to the older flat bottom hulls up to gen 2 SN, from then on there not so flat…they may be not as thick hulls as the old but the hull shape looks more stable with stringers removed. As for supporting… at the back each side and each side at the chine in line with the dash… some leave on the trailer with supporting and some off… as yet both ways have worked well. |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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Frankenotter
Platinum Member Joined: August-26-2012 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
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Thank Jacob! Sorry for the delay, I've been traveling a lot this week. Tim is helping me through the engineering logistics of putting this boat back together. The initial reason for leaving the old floor edge was centered around the idea of using Coosa to re-stringer the boat. The idea was to reenforce the edges with a strip of Coosa and epoxy. Then use the edge lip as a support to hold a "floating floor". What that meant was not installing a subfloor that gets glassed to the sidewalls. Instead, just screw the ply directly to the stringers after coating the ply with CPES. The top side of the ply will be covered in the original Grey vinyl. After looking into Coosa availability and pricing, I'm afraid it won't be an option. The best price I was able to negotiate for the amount of material needed was $600 vs $60 for Douglas Fir. With the engine and engine accessories in unknown condition, I decided that money would be better used for other items. I would honesty consider the Coosa worth it if this boat was going to be my daily driver. Going forward, I still like the idea of the floating floor and reenforcing the edges. I'll have to consult my engineer again, but I think the same construction could be used with Doug Fir. As far as leveling the boat, yes that will be one of the next steps. This thing flexes like an empty beer can right now. I will be researching the best ways to do this in the next few weeks after I get done pressure washing the fiberglass out of the boat. The trailer that came with it (as horrible and unusable as it is) is actually a really good support. It's not an inboard trailer so it has built in rollers along the keel that can be shimmed. Then I plan to level the stern with cinderblocks and shims. Once the stringers get shaped, I'll probably cut a section of cheap plywood to put on the non-working side to distribute the weight while I'm working. I'm open to ideas and if anyone has a link to a good leveling thread please feel free to share it. Chris |
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1999 Ski Nautique 196
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21136 |
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The rationale for leaving the lip was for the floating floor... regardless of material choice.
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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No stones to throw from my direction, but I am curious about the floating floor idea. Wouldn't the floor attached to the hull sides provide some stability to keep the hull from flexing while sitting on the trailer, or in a bouncing/choppy water situation? In my thinking, pressure from the weight of the hull on the trailer bunks would want to bow the hull sides out. The floor seems like it would provide some stability to keep the hull sides from spreading if it were fastened to the sides. obviously the hull would be compressed by the water around it, when the boat was floating, so I don't see that as much of an issue.
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Frankenotter
Platinum Member Joined: August-26-2012 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
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Kris I think that's where the ribs would come into play. I would be adding ribs off the secondary's to the sidewalls. I would also replace the straps of wood connecting the stringers with ribs.
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1999 Ski Nautique 196
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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Ahh... that makes sense... I do think not adding extra ribs would cause the non-tied surface to be greater (adding the distance from the original floor to the secondary) that could be problematic. When you add the ribs, the unsupported side area remains the same as the factory design, just a different connection point.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21136 |
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No ribs needed. 2nd gen SN and earlier/smaller hulls are rigid enough to not need a structural floor. The fiberglass skin over the foam was very thin from the factory. The wood topper floor was needed for impact resistance.
Ask mars... no foam, ribs or structural floor in his promo. It's solid. The thinner layups and larger spans on the 2001 and later boats is a different ballgame. |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Yep! My Promo is very solid and no issues. |
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Frankenotter
Platinum Member Joined: August-26-2012 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
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Summer is just floating along and with it comes a decrease in desire to lay in a hot garage working on a boat. I haven't made much progress since the last post but I thought I'd take a study break and post what's about to happen.
First off, I got the old trailer out from under the boat and put it up for sale. My intension was to use the Correct Craft trailer (that I acquired from the Benjamins) to support the boat with the aid of some chine and stern supports. I didn't realize how high the boat sits when it's on this type of trailer. I decided that I didn't want to be climbing that high in and out of the boat during the glassing process. Plus......I wasn't happy with the location of the bunks relative to the hull. They sat in between the keel and the chine which bowed the hull. With this in mind, I decided to use the boat dollies as a safety net and block the hull with cinder blocks and wood. |
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1999 Ski Nautique 196
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Frankenotter
Platinum Member Joined: August-26-2012 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
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Tim had to walk me though the leveling process, but I will post a video of what I did to make sure the hull was straight.
A few weeks ago Mr. Skutch came by to help me acquire some Douglas Fir. The lumberyard was quite mistaken on what they actually had in stock and tried to sell me regular pine. in the end, I ended up getting 2x8x18 for $14.50 per board. Obviously I will end up cutting it all down in the next few weeks. |
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1999 Ski Nautique 196
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Chris,
Do you know that you have the CMU's in the wrong position at least at the stem? The cores need to be positioned vertical for strength. Picture a CMU wall!! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21136 |
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Good plan. You pick up your pylon and clearance bar yet?
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Frankenotter
Platinum Member Joined: August-26-2012 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
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Hey Pete, I see what you're saying but it took so much work to get this &&?#€¥~* level that I think she's staying right there. The boat is rock solid now.
Tim I have to get down to HWs this week sometime to grab the goods. Thank you again for the amazing find. I will be addressing the cradle/pylon plan very soon. |
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1999 Ski Nautique 196
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Frankenotter
Platinum Member Joined: August-26-2012 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
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Which brings us to the part of the story where planning is involved. I have been consulting with Mr. Tim about the rebuild plan for this boat for quite a while now. As mentioned in a previous post, the current plan is to do a simple system of stringers with ribs, a small subfloor in the cockpit to provide an anchor for the seating, and a floating floor (not glassed to the hull) on the entire boat.
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1999 Ski Nautique 196
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Frankenotter
Platinum Member Joined: August-26-2012 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
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There will be several advantages to doing this method.
1. there will be no foam to cause future rot. The ribs will provide support. 2. No straps. Apparently this is a known weak spot in the original design where the glass would fail. Evidenced in my case by the big gaping holes in the stringers when I acquired the boat. 3. With the use of an engine cradle, the floating floor will provide access to the through bolts if I need to remove the eninge down the road. The floor will be covered with the original grey vinyl and the aluminum track to bolt it down. I think the subfloor in the cockpit and the airbox will be the only areas that get directly glasses to the hull. I will also be glassing a sheet of either biaxial or mat to the sidewalls to "beef up" the areas I removed the gel. |
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1999 Ski Nautique 196
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21136 |
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I think those straps were a production aid more than any kind of structural member- so I wouldn't go crazy adding too many ribs... just a few to support/provide a nailer for the floor. Maybe 2 per side since you'll be doing a sub floor up front? You'll also want to add a little reinforcement under the lip of the original glass floor that you left behind. With the ski pockets installed it will be hard to put much weight on outer floor edge that the lip is supporting, but it'd be nice to hold some weight without deflection.
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
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I have to say I agree with this. Not saying that you will have a problem with them breaking but id be willing to bet if you've ever seen them crumble it would make you set them correctly. |
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2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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He's been taking too much or Mr. Tim's advice
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrfUSsh47ryL63PM7NNenGRLnRrjhsjU95_Vg_KLgU6sU5kpFAAA |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4246 |
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If he got the blocks at Home Depot I hear there is a guy there that would have instructed him on proper block orientation.
Unless Chris has 4 buddies in the boat working with him I think it will be OK. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21136 |
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They may be stronger stacked vertically as intended but they're plenty strong sideways (and the risk is quite low when the trailer remains underneath). |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I feel we need to steer Chris away from Tim's advice. It's obvious Tim isn't familiar with the ASTM C90 standards!! |
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Frankenotter
Platinum Member Joined: August-26-2012 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
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Here is my layup schedule. I plan to make my own CPES to coat the doug fir. The stringers will be bedded with epoxy mixed with cabosill and 1/32' milled fiber. Glassing the stringers will consist of 2 layers of 2" tape (offsetting), 2 layers of 4" tape, 2 layers of 8" tape, 1 layer of biaxial 12" thick, and one layer of biaxial to cover the top of the stringer. Secondary's will get one layer of 2', 4', and 8' tape with a biaxial cover. Here is my component list so far from US Composites. Please feel free to suggest anything I missed or shouldn't purchase. The 2 questions I have yet to answer before the materials are ordered, are; 1. what type of mat should I use for the sidewalls of the boat? (under the gunnel) 2. what type of dye should I use for the bilge (assuming I epoxy the bilge). |
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1999 Ski Nautique 196
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6110 |
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I confess. I had to look up CMU. Concrete Masonary Unit. Oh, OK, Cinder block.
Well I better grab my ink filled writing implement and get back to work. (impressed now?) |
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“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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Frankenotter
Platinum Member Joined: August-26-2012 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
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I did the same. Sometimes I don't know about these guys. |
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1999 Ski Nautique 196
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Chris,
I feel your layup schedule is excessive. Maybe half of what you have drawn? Let's see what the expert on CMU's has to say. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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Its a pretty reasonable schedule, although with actual wood the biaxial might be a bit overkill - you could probably save some resin by using a mat instead - but people are all about the biaxial these days. |
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