Cooling issue = Blown head gasket |
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bb12
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2009 Location: Kansas, USA Status: Offline Points: 355 |
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Honestly that was my first thought when they told me how they tested it. I posted on here because I wasn't 100% convinced it was a head gasket and wanted to get feedback (and I'm still not convinced)...They are a reputable shop and have been around for a long time...My boat was actually sold new there when they used to sell Correct Crafts back in the 80s. Now they are a just a MasterCraft/Malibu dealer...Anyway, he said they had done the test before on another boat and it was a head gasket. He did say his next step would be to check the exhaust manifolds for leaks before tearing down the engine. At this point I have some troubleshooting of my own to do before jumping to any conclusions. |
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1989 Ski Nautique 2001
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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I would absolutely be pulling the manifolds and risers to check and clean them. That is basic and will only cost you a set of gaskets (unless of course you snap or round off a bolt head )
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2DLake
Newbie Joined: November-28-2012 Location: Hattiesburg, MS Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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I am far from an expert, but noticed in your description of the problem photo that you said there were bubbles in the strainer. With bubbles in the strainer I would immediately suspect strainer gasket (o-ring) issues. I saw that you checked connections to the strainer but didn't mention the gasket. Thought I would throw that out since I haven't seen it mentioned.
Hope you find the issue soon. |
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Mark
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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ditto... If you find the manifolds and risers to be good, and you don't feel comfortable with the head gasket job, you can take the boat to the shop with the manifolds off, you will have saved them the trouble, as they would need to take the manifolds off to do a proper job anyway. Gaskets are a given as you would need them either way. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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2DLake
Newbie Joined: November-28-2012 Location: Hattiesburg, MS Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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You are dead on it Hollywood. Don't know how I missed that one. Even looked back through the thread before I posted.
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Mark
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3337 |
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Also consider just take the pump outlet off at the thermostat, start it up.
Observe the flow of the water delivery system up to that point. when above idle, the hose should send water up over the gunnel. Just beware the open thermostat inlet will burp hot water when started due to the exhaust pressure clearing the mufflers. When you then ensured the engine is receiving proper volume of water, work the issue toward the engine. Have YOU had the thermostat housing off yet for inspection? |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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bb12
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2009 Location: Kansas, USA Status: Offline Points: 355 |
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Yes, the shop actually went through two thermostats while they were troubleshooting. The mechanic said he cleaned a bit of rust/scale out of it. I haven't had a chance to mess with the boat yet, but my plan is to do some diag of my own this weekend with the help of my neighbor that is a mechanic. And Interestingly enough, said neighbor just so happens to have a set of GT40p heads off of a late 90s Mountaineer! Very tempting regardless if the issue is a bad gasket or not! |
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1989 Ski Nautique 2001
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Every cast iron thermostat housing is going to be rusty on the inside, nbd.
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6149 |
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Our 89 looks to move more water than yours judging by the video but it still gets hot. It doesn't drain a 5 gallon bucket with anywhere near the enthusiasm of my 85 or most recently the 90 Prostar we just sold, (have also ran the 85 RWP on the 89 with no change).
All good info above so far. Hoses are cheap and need to be done as maintenance anyways. Cut the strainer out for testing. Cleaning the manifolds is cheap like HW said and gives you piece of mind. I am planning on hoses on my brothers boat when we pull it off the lift this fall just to check but I am 90ish percent sold on the fact it has some internal block restriction somewhere. 155 degrees all day long until you run it over 4100 rpms or come back to idle after extended at RPM running. Side note: Cleaning the manifolds out on this engine substantially reduced the overheating. Before anything over 3200 rpms for any amount of time would produce overheating. Now as long as you don't go right back to idle you can maintain 4000 as long as you want.. It has had an issue since before we owned it. It features one new riser(and a burnt up muffler fitting), new RWP and a new block circulation pump. |
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bb12
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2009 Location: Kansas, USA Status: Offline Points: 355 |
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Okay, here is a video of the bucket test. Looks to be about 45-50 seconds to empty the 5 gallon bucket at a little under 1000 RPMs. Hose is bucket straight to RWP and I also plumbed more clear hoses between RWP and tstat housing and manifolds and tstat housing to observe flow. Thoughts on the RWP suction?
And here is another video running off of my T. |
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1989 Ski Nautique 2001
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bb12
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2009 Location: Kansas, USA Status: Offline Points: 355 |
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Update: Well I feel like a total dumb***! First of all never underestimate the power of a digital IR thermometer!!
Ran the boat again on the hose yesterday and hit the motor all over the place with the IR thermometer...Block, risers, manifolds, temp sending unit, etc- and everything seemed perfectly normal. Risers were about 150ish on the port side and 130-140ish on the starboard side. Block and sending unit area never got hotter than about 140 or so. Exhaust manifold ports were all within 5 or so degrees of each other as well (blown head gasket my a**!). And while taking all of these readings the gauge was reading 170-175. Also pulled the tstat out and found an automotive 142 that the shop had put in it...smh! New PCM 143 tstat is on the way and will be addressing the gauge/sender issue now. And a lake test will be in order to confirm that everything is indeed okay. But it seems things are obviously not as dire as the shop said. I'm really glad I had doubts about the head gasket diagnosis and posted it on here...And I also want to thank everyone for seriously doubting it as well! That's why CCFan is the best! |
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1989 Ski Nautique 2001
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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That thermostat is fine
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desertskier
Platinum Member Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1114 |
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I made a few measurements last weekend that might help in your diagnosis. I measured the resistance from the temperature sender post to the body of the sender with the wire removed. When the temp gauge was reading 180 deg the sender was 104 ohms. At 170 deg it was 123 ohms and at 160 degrees it was 142 ohms. Each time I read the gauge then removed the wire and made the measurement. Unfortunately I don't know if my gauge is accurate or not but its a starting point.
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
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If I'm following desertskier on this you have checked /replaced / tested everything in the cooling system but the sensor itself.
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bb12
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2009 Location: Kansas, USA Status: Offline Points: 355 |
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Thanks for the info Sean. I don't think it's the sender itself. The shop actually changed out the sender when they were trying to diagnose it. I'm leaning towards a bad ground...I've read up on this a bit and my boat has the infamous "gauges peg when Nav lights are turned on" issue which makes me think weak ground. I read a post about a guy with an '88 that had the exact same symptoms, gauge read 170-190, but he was actually running 155.
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1989 Ski Nautique 2001
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Make sure they didn't use any thread sealer on the sender in the manifold, direct metal contact is needed.
Run a jumper ground wire from the battery to your temp gauge and see what happens. |
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desertskier
Platinum Member Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1114 |
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I was thinking that making a simple resistance measurement at the sender takes the gauge/wiring out of the equation. If he measures the same resistance as me but is reporting a different temp then he probably has a bad gauge or wiring. But like I said I'm not sure that my gauge is accurate either so this would be just more info to help in the diagnosis. bb12: On my '89 I ran an additional wire from the negative battery post up to the dash and tied it into the existing grounds. The cleaner way to do it would be to run it from the engine ground but the end result is the same. |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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I've set mine up so I can monitor Oil press, fuel press, and engine temp while under the engine cover. All 3 are mechanical gauges. Also have engine hours, starter / jog switch, and main breaker on the same panel as oil press. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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desertskier
Platinum Member Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1114 |
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I like that. Can you switch between dash gauges and engine gauges?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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The mechanicals won't interfere with the electrics. No "switching". |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Dont need to as these are all mechanical gauges. Trust these more than sending unit gauges on dash. I like the idea of being able to start or just jog the engine over from the back instead of trying to stretch from the key. edit: Thx Pete, ya beat me to it |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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desertskier
Platinum Member Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1114 |
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Mechanical. Wow. I remember those but I haven't seen one since I installed some in my '69 CJ5.
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
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Holy crap Duane it's an old ski boat not a top fuel dragster u
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peter1234
Grand Poobah Joined: February-03-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2756 |
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I agree with the set of mechanicals in the engine area . i have them in my Formula engine area it is just comforting to sometimes open the cover and compare readings.
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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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That's what I get for crewing on the Nitro Funny Car. Hard to get out of my system. LOL |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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