need help identifying this Correct Craft |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Rick,
Get some volt readings at the battery (on the posts - not the cable terminals) and then all the way through to the starter during cranking. |
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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something doesn't sound right with your timing... that battery could be weak, but if you can make the motor spin with the starter by retarding the timing, it sounds to me like you have a plug out of order, or you have #1 180° out. Make sure you have #1 it on the compression stroke when you mark the distributor, location of #1 wire doesn't matter, as long as the rotor points to the plug wire in the right order. Since you have a Mopar, make sure you are actually putting #1 where it should be on the motor as well. Ford/Chevy are different, so double confirm...
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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Here is a diagram for you - pulled from another site, but it looks to be comprehensive. Also to note, the distributor is shown in a schematic location, your dist. looks like it is in the back of the motor by the flywheel... This Schematic diagram looks as if the dist is in the front of the engine... cylinder location is the same, compared to the flywheel, the diagram is just a bit confusing.
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Thanks for the info Ken. Much appreciated. Chrysler and Chevy engineers had to be working together,...LOL. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Firing order is reversed. Need to verify which terminal on the cap is truly #1. It could be any of them. Get to compression stroke of #1 cylinder and see which terminal the rotor is at. That's #1. and CW from there. 18436572 Thanks again Ken... |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Or is the firing order truly reversed even if the dizzy spins the same direction for RR engines??? Wow, I feel like friggin' rookie here.
Guess that's why I stick with standard rotation engines. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10745 |
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He needs the reverse rotation firing order which is how he says it's hooked up now.
That would be 1 2 7 5 6 3 4 8. And rilee that LM designation just means it's a Chrysler marine engine and tells you nothing about direction of rotation although it certainly seems that you have a RR engine based on your rotation observations. Like Eddie and DesertSkier I have the feeling you haven't correctly found TDC for #1 cylinder and then oriented the distributor wires so that the terminal the rotor is pointing at is by default the terminal for #1 spark plug wire, then go clockwise from there with the Reverse rotation firing order.. Just a feelin KenO |
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rilee29
Newbie Joined: July-19-2016 Location: Provo, Utah Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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think I have found it. Firing orders and plug wire orientation were correct. I had spark, but was checking it at the coil. Turns out somehow my distributor is shorting out. I can light my test light on the outside casing. more old time checking I had forgotten about. Any recommendations for a distributor upgrade that doesn't cost more than the $500 I paid for the boat and the extra $500 I have put into everything else so far?
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Rick
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10745 |
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Sounds to me like a good inspection of the distributor wire from the coil negative terminal where it enters the distributor and replacement of at least the points and condenser would maybe solve your problem.
And making sure you have a distributor body ground to the engine |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Yes, I have found this wire frayed where it goes through the distributor body causing a continuous grounding of the coil. I also suggest taking a step beyond the test light and getting a VOM. Inexpensive meters are around $25 and will tell you much more. |
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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So maybe my ignorance is showing out a bit here, but I have never heard of having a distributor body light up a test light before. How can that be possible? Seems to me that the light would flash on momentarily if the spark was jumping to ground if there was a problem with the internals of the distributor, but that would also suggest that touching the distributor during cranking would give you one nasty surprise. If the light lights when standing still (which is what it sounds like to me from your description above), I might be tempted to think your battery positive and negative are reversed... If the positive was going straight to the engine block, it seems like you would get this result. Since this is an old boat without electronic parts, You might be able to do a positive "ground" without having to send parts back to the factory to have the smoke reinstalled . Seems like this would make the starter spin backwards too and without having much power. If I am totally off base, I would love to be educated.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Kris, It's got me confused as well. It's got to be the way Rick described it?? |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10745 |
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i could say something like "this should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer" but I'd be lyin". It wasn't much of a description of how he did this, but it's coming from the battery one way or another. I guess he'll probably have a better description coming along soon though. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Rick,
The body of a distributor is grounded to the block. |
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rilee29
Newbie Joined: July-19-2016 Location: Provo, Utah Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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I'm still struggling to understand a bit of it myself. The points and condenser are new. They were installed by the previous owner who owned Taylor Marine in Salt Lake. Obviously the smart ones had trouble too. I bought a new coil and ballast last night and that's when I noticed the magic leaking. Test light lighting was an accidental find but in any case, everything got shut down. I know power to the casing should not happen so I am looking for a electronic conversion plate for the distributor. I hate hunting down 50 year old problems. Off to the parts house again......btw...I have a wiring schematic so wiring has all been checked by me and another person for correctness. I'll post later when I find parts.
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Rick
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Rick,
When you're out, get that VOM so you can do some decent testing and not just start throwing parts at it. We'll guide you through it. When you get that test light to light up, where exactly are you touching the probes? Also, is that with the ignition switch turned to the run position? |
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rilee29
Newbie Joined: July-19-2016 Location: Provo, Utah Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Test light was resting about an inch from the distributor wire on the case when I turned the key to the run position. Within seconds I started to see smoke at the ballast too so I shut down and disconnected the distributor wire. Everything was OK then. I assumed the wire was shorting internally in the distributor. I have a dvom. You guys are awesome to even take the time to brainstorm with me! Thanks a ton!
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Rick
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rilee29
Newbie Joined: July-19-2016 Location: Provo, Utah Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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so patience does pay off! On a classified add site yesterday and snagged an HEI conversion distributor (brand New) for $50. Any comments pro or con to using one of these? Seems like a great idea me being a GM guy. I am hoping to create some confidence and longevity in this boat running and not leaving me stranded....lol Besides, I can take back the $63 in parts I just bought for the old ignition system.
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Rick
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10745 |
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Well sooner or later somebody will ask if it's a marine distributor so it might as well be sooner like right now.
Is it a marine distributor? |
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Donald80SN
Grand Poobah Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Denver, NC Status: Offline Points: 3893 |
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If you do have a Reverse Rotation Motor, the gear on the distributor will have to be different for the Reverse Rotation. Maybe you are planning on this.
I grew up with a 72 Martinique with a Ford 302 Holman Moody motor that my Uncle owned on White Lake NC. They sold the boat in 1980 and I would love to find it, but I probably need to be careful what I hope for. |
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1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Yup, it's a RR:
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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Is your distributor branded DUI? several guys have converted to them, and they seem to be a good alternative to standard Distributors. I hope it all goes well for you. Post up some pictures of what you picked up
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10745 |
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A 318 Chrysler doesn't have a gear on the distributor, the gear stays in the engine and there is a slot on the top. The end of the distributor shaft has a short male stub on it that fits in the female slot. Kinda like..........well never mind. Bound to get some comments on that description.
KenO |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Ken,
Just so you don't have to further describe male shafts fitting into female slots, here's the picture: |
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rilee29
Newbie Joined: July-19-2016 Location: Provo, Utah Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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How do i get pictures on here from my phone? Cut and paste option doesn't seem to exist?
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Rick
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10745 |
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Thanks Pete You could have at least shown a marine distributor though |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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No problem Ken. I did try to find a picture of a marine but none I could find showed the shaft end. For those who may not know the difference, the one shown is an automotive since it has a vacuum advance. It's the round diaphragm chamber on the side. Marine units are mechanical advance. |
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Chevy350
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2013 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 721 |
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Well its easier to do on comupter, but click on the tree with the up arrow, then choose the picture you want. Like I said it's easier to put the photos on your computer and upload load them from there. |
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1972 Mustang
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Donald80SN
Grand Poobah Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Denver, NC Status: Offline Points: 3893 |
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Wow, I did not know that. Very cool. Donald |
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1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
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rilee29
Newbie Joined: July-19-2016 Location: Provo, Utah Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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since I am not savvy enough to do the pics, the distributor is a Proform part # 67040. I installed it today and we have the baby breathing again! Sounds awesome! I am pretty sure the block is a reman, but with the HEI and the 750 Summit carb, it is very responsive. Had to rebuild the water pump today also. I don't seem to be getting the water flow where it should be though. I am using one of those plunger looking gismos on the underside of the boat . the attached hose goes to both the pump inlet and the oil cooler. I have seen some pretty clean looking setups on the internet and tried to make sure mine was the same, but who knows if they are correct....
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Rick
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