learning to barefoot |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21137 |
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The 3-point is a learning tool to teach you to proper form when you plant. You dont need to master it. Seipel doesnt teach it. I dont think McDonald did either. Its hard and unnecessary (IMHO). Once you can do it well, you can skip it entirely- whats the point?
The goal is a nice, slow, controlled plant. You can practice the muscle memory on land. Get in your glide position, then practice the 3 things mentioned above. Its not a 1, 2, 3 progression- all 3 have to happen at once- its a single movement. On the water, stand up, sit down, repeat. That'll build muscle memory. |
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LakeBoy
Gold Member Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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Steve, I was not picking on your girl, she was doing awesome, especially her 3-point. Gotta love how flexible the ladies are. Put my legs in her position I would be on pain meds for a week! |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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No. Arms out as you stand up. If you're on your butt handle is in. Sandbagger. Cup stays in the hockey bag. Tried it once actually, hated it. |
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LakeBoy
Gold Member Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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Yeah, baby! That is what I call a "modern woman", eh HW? |
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IAughtNaut
Grand Poobah Joined: August-22-2010 Location: TN Status: Offline Points: 2568 |
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You know what, this actually brings up a good question. If I'm riding in the three point and not standing up, whether its at 25 or 35, where should my arms be? I'm good with the concept of straightening them as I stand, but if I don't stand, where are they? |
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IAughtNaut
Grand Poobah Joined: August-22-2010 Location: TN Status: Offline Points: 2568 |
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(and in the 5th video I know it looks like I was mugging for the camera, but I was really trying to make sure he didn't come off the speed cause somebody else told him I was down, hahaha)
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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If that's the goal, make sure you tell the driver, slow the boat WAAAYYYYY down, you should be able to 3 point around 25 mph. Tell the driver, you just want to motor around in the 3-pt, resist adding power when he sees you set in it. A couple trips across the lake in the 3 point without attempting to stand will allow you some practice. |
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IAughtNaut
Grand Poobah Joined: August-22-2010 Location: TN Status: Offline Points: 2568 |
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This is going to sound stupid when I say it but I'm going to anyway...I never thought of that. My mental progression has been stepwise. 1. feet out in front 2. sit up straighter 3. straighten arms 4. put feet under I've never considered doing any of them together...so I guess what you're saying is, feet out in front, back straight, then straighten my arms slowly AS I pull my feet under? It sounds easy but I feel like its going to take me a few tries to line it all up. |
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IAughtNaut
Grand Poobah Joined: August-22-2010 Location: TN Status: Offline Points: 2568 |
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The problem I seem to have is I keep getting 2 of 3. If my feet are under my butt and my back is up, them my arms are pulled in to my chest. For some reason, every time I let my arms out I lay back. I'm not doing it on purpose, that's just the way I balance, or I'm trying to clear my knees with the handle, or something. What was funny was there was another guy with us on the boat who turned out to be a real good skier, and he offered some pointers as we went along that were really helpful, but after this run he was like, man that was a nice tumble, I wouldn't have thought you could do that. And I told him, tumbling around isn't a problem, what I need to do is work on the plant to build the muscle memory to do it consistently. And he says to me, I've never met a person who could tumble and not plant, anyone I've ever seen tumble can stand up. Haha, well buddy, that's cause you've never been skiing with me! You wouldn't know it to look at the videos, but I wasn't trying to stand up. My entire goal last night was to find the sweet spot in the three point so I could just ride there. Just haven't found it yet. When I ended up on my feet it was strictly by accident. |
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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Adam, you have come a long way.
I will say everything will come together if you keep the handle in tight...until you plant...then as you come up let it out slowly |
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Actually asked Elaine Heller that and she wore one to learn and then wears one when she is doing hardcore slalom work or learning new tricks. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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So are girls supposed to wear a cup for llbds?
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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LOL, Roy, yes still some spray but not the fire hose in your face that you get in what I have come to call the Wakeboarder start, with your knees as wide as your feet.
Agreed, her arms are bent, but I think that was her first time down the lake in the 3 point, I am sure it was corrected on the next pass. Note: this was a very slow progression, she didn't attempt push up (stand) for probably 4 or 5 more passes. BTW, I do wear the cup, and neck brace. Last weeks LLBD attempts with HW and Johnny, I did take it out for the last two attempts, as it was getting uncomfortable. Plus I was willing to try anything to change it up. Didn't bother to post the video's because it was just more of the same. Steve dragging in the water, finally driving one of his feet through and popping the rope. Better 3 point rides, more comfortable and more power,I know what to continue to focus on. practice practice practice, but no need to post more of those vids... |
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LakeBoy
Gold Member Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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That picture of your girl is also a good endorsement for goggles, too, Steve. I never learned with goggles because "I am a badass, see, I barefoot!" I wear them more and more. I got a killer pair from my wife for my birthday and I think I am going to wear them regularly. When I teach my kids they wear them and like them. Steve, your girl is so distracted with the water in her face, she has forgotten to let out her arms. That's what happens without proper gear is you get distracted. Now back to wearing a cup...lol.
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LakeBoy
Gold Member Joined: July-19-2006 Location: Roseville, CA Status: Offline Points: 709 |
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Adam: Nice job working it out. I agree with Steve on the goggles. You are eating a lot of water. On attempt 4 your knees were close and feet were apart right up against your butt. Good formula for a smooth plant. The farther your feet are in front of you when you plant, the more you will stab the water and get bounced around. Ditto on Tim's breakdown.
Don't be sheepish about getting of the LLBD discussion. After all, this thread is "learning to barefoot," not "arguing about barefoot" |
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Heels touching the outside of your ass. Most guys can't actually do it, my girls do it with no effort... |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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We had problems with a 6'+ guy learning to barefoot. The "feet to butt" part confused him. He kept tryin to put his feet under his butt instead of next to it. This resulted in the spread knees (birthing position), stabbed feet and overall lots of instability. Knees together, feet out and back. Not sure this was intended for Adam but thought it might help some.
Anyway, nice work up there. |
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Wow Tim, great frame by frame analysis! the only thing I would add is concentrating on putting your knees together and pigeon-toeing your feet a bit will greatly reduce the amount of water-boarding that you are experiencing. Either that or wear a set of goggles like Andy does.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21137 |
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Adam, the glide on your butt is actually the best in video 1. This is perfect:
You are leaned back just far enough to have found your balance point, handle is at the hips, knees are together, lower legs are up off the water and parallel to it. 3 things need to happen when you plant. 1) feet to butt 2)let the hands out away from the hips 3)sit up As you surmised, you got 2 of the 3 in video 1... Sit forward as you plant and things will go better. In video 4, your glide started out terrible. Sitting up too straight, straight legs, handle out... this usually ends with an ugly fall when your foot catches the water: You made an adjustment to regain control by leaning back and bending your knees, getting your lower legs up and parallel to the water. Arms were still straight though: When you planted, you brought your feet back and sat up, and thats why you were able to ski away. Start from a little bit better butt glide (handle in) and things will go more smoothly from the beginning. Nice work! Youve got all the parts, now you just gotta put them all together and make it consistent. |
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IAughtNaut
Grand Poobah Joined: August-22-2010 Location: TN Status: Offline Points: 2568 |
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Ok, I'm throwing my hat in the "learning to barefoot" thread...mostly just cause I know everybody likes video, even if they're not impressive.
Sorry to redirect the LLBD topic (which is awesome by the way) Went out with watrski last night and let him drag me around the lake for a while. Was smart enough to bring my camera and a girl to hold it. For me, it doesn't matter how many times someone tells me I'm doing something wrong, if I can't visualize it, I don't get it. After seeing these videos, I get it. There's a lot of things wrong with these videos, don't tear me apart too bad. I'm getting better about getting my feet under my butt, but I didn't realize until I saw it how far back I was laying. That's just not gonna work. It was a little better the second try. I also do this thing where no matter where I plant my feet, I immediately jab my feet out...not down, out The feet are closer, but I'm still so far back...then Tim yelled something at me so I figured the safest thing to do was let go. I finally started to figure it out. On this run I could visualize what I needed to do as it was happening. |
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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I'd call it a back step off of a flip turn ski.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21137 |
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Are you still allowed to call it a flip turn if you dont flip turn it?
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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This is how I was taught to barefoot backwards longline. Or do the Walk around ski. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21137 |
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A back deep start on the flip turn sounds harder than a LLBD!
Ive barefooted in a life jacket more times than Ive tricked in my bf suit (which ive done zero times) but too buoyant seems like a plausible excuse. |
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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I used this method, I think its easier on a flip turn, i had difficulty keeping them straight enough...seemed like my barefoot suit made me too bouyantI |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21137 |
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...says the guy who has never attempted to trick ski backwards at 40mph! I would imagine that if you can stay up that long on the tricks, that leaving them behind would be a relief! |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6111 |
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Adam, look at the top of the previous page of this thread (p 97) and there it is. Can't guarantee its trick skis vs modified combo, but close enough. |
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IAughtNaut
Grand Poobah Joined: August-22-2010 Location: TN Status: Offline Points: 2568 |
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and then bombout. that's the video I want to see...back bombout from trick skis
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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I do it like a llbd but the ball is probably better
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21137 |
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Next time try curling up in a ball, handle behind your knees, a$$ in the air. I tell the driver to go once my butt breaks the surface.
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