floor repair and exploration |
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utahflooringanddesig
Newbie Joined: December-15-2022 Location: 8452 S State St Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Posted: January-02-2023 at 11:58pm |
floor exploration is a complementary maneuver for the treatment of zygomatic-maxillary compound fractures that permits the precise diagnostic of the lesion and the correct indication of repair.
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Jason Darger
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1413 |
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Trey.....your be surprised how much the cloth or left over biax adds to the screw holding especially if there is a layer on the underside which you can screw through....after Cpes the pilot holes and then fixing with a PU sealant in the holes.
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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teelta
Senior Member Joined: February-22-2012 Location: Fort Worth, TX Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Jeff, definitely without a doubt attach plywood, cut holes, and then foam. It will be a lot easier. If I had it to do all over again, which I probably won't because this floor should outlast me, I would foam after the plywood is in place. I used 3/4" in front section that covers the bulkhead and 1/2" the rest of the floor. Under the bow, I am fiberglassing right over the foam. I was going to cut holes in the plywood but when it came down to actually cutting the holes I thought it might weaken the plywood, which was stupid because the foam is dense and will support the plywood very well. I also wondered if the foam would fill all the voids if I had the plywood in already - there was no way of knowing. So what I ended up doing is pouring the foam between the stringers and ended up with a lot of waste. I ordered a 10lb 4lb. density kit and had to end up ordering more because I ran out. I did not enjoy getting the foam flush with the top of the stringers. It was not fun. Unless you have already gotten your foam, I would attach your plywood and use the injectable kind like Pete suggests. And if I remember correctly holes need to drilled every 18" or something like that. Also another advantage to putting in foam after the plywood is you are not cutting off the sealed film or skin that forms once it cures making it more impervious to water. I don't know exactly what you mean by "cap holes" but you can just cut off the mushroom of foam that comes out the holes flush with the plywood and then fiberglass right over it. Another concern I had after cutting off the mushroom is how do you seal the edge of the plywood hole? Maybe fiberglassing over the top will be enough, I don't know. But I guess you could cut the holes and then CPES the edges just to make sure. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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No need to tip boat. Let expand then cut, been documented a few times already (along with some of your other general questions). A CCF google domain search works great.
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ny_nautique
Platinum Member Joined: June-01-2011 Location: Albany NY Status: Offline Points: 1215 |
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Teelta, I'm leaning towards pouring the foam after the floor is done. Just wondering how your process went, and if you had a lot of waste.
My thought is: 1) Install floor 2) drill strategic holes throughout the floor (every 3 feet or so) 3) Tip the boat on the trailer 4) Pour foam into holes 5) Cap holes 6) Glass floor Did you let the foam expand and then cut it, or did you use something to stop it from expanding above your floor height? |
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- Jeff
1999 Ski Nautique |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21135 |
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2 layers of biax over a ply floor is overkill... 1 is plenty. I wouldnt use 3/4 ply either- with the exception of the span over the bilge (motor box to batt box). With the support of the foam, even 3/8" or 1/4" would be fine. CC built the floor with ~1/8" thick glass right over the foam, after all.
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teelta
Senior Member Joined: February-22-2012 Location: Fort Worth, TX Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Yes I've sealed it up with CPES. THX!
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1413 |
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Trey, most go with coating with Cpes(thinned epoxy) to seal up the ply all round...well soaked into the edges of the ply,with a layer of cloth to the under side of the ply,then lay and finish the top with layers 2 layers of cloth or biax if your using up supplies you have left over,this is if your using 3/4 ply.... if your ply is thinner then I would add 1 more top layer...as the foam will support the ply too if its all flushed off to the under side of the ply.
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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teelta
Senior Member Joined: February-22-2012 Location: Fort Worth, TX Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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I have all my foam poured and am about to get all my plywood glued down to the stringers and foam. I know...I'm one of those guys that decided to use plywood on top of foam.
I was planning on putting 3 layers of Biax over the plywood. Does that sound right? Too much? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21135 |
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I havent dissected a newer (87+) pylon cup, but the older ones had a flange at the bottom that was glassed down. Nothing was bedded in thickened resin or anything.
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teelta
Senior Member Joined: February-22-2012 Location: Fort Worth, TX Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Other than glass around it on the sides, how is it attached? Epoxyed to the hull?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I would grind it out and then glass it back in. You want to make sure you don't have any voids. |
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teelta
Senior Member Joined: February-22-2012 Location: Fort Worth, TX Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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I noticed the pylon cup in the bilge is slightly loose. I am unable to pry it loose with moderate pressure. Can I reinforce it by fiberglassing it to the hull?
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HatterBee
Gold Member Joined: April-29-2011 Location: Burgaw NC Status: Offline Points: 505 |
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Thanks Tim. I didn't realize that. That would be a pretty big screwdriver.
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dochockey
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 638 |
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I will be near my boat this weekend, I can take some measurements if you can wait
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1989 Teal Ski Nautique
1967 Mustang Harris Float Sunfish |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21135 |
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That'll be a little trickier on a '89... all ball top pylons (mid 87 and newer) are a full 2.5" diameter all the way to the base, so the cup is much larger than the 1" diam on the ring and finger versions.
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HatterBee
Gold Member Joined: April-29-2011 Location: Burgaw NC Status: Offline Points: 505 |
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Insert a small screwdriver in the cup by the handle and make sure it is straight and then set the floor section down and let the screwdriver mark where the hole needs to be.
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teelta
Senior Member Joined: February-22-2012 Location: Fort Worth, TX Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Yep, that is exactly what I planned on doing if no one had any measurements for me. :)
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kytom2
Gold Member Joined: July-25-2007 Location: Maysville Ky Status: Offline Points: 698 |
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The floor in that area was toast when I did mine too. When I got to this point I made a cardboard template for the placement of the pylon.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21135 |
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That hole needs to be lined up to be directly above the cup glassed to the hull that the pylon sits in. The pylon is 2.5" diam. The pylon is held securely by the cradle, so the hole through the floor just needs to be finished off to look nice (not structural). Your call on how you do the carpet.
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teelta
Senior Member Joined: February-22-2012 Location: Fort Worth, TX Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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I am about to cut out the plywood section that goes in front of engine. There was nothing left of the wood I took out so I can't use as a template. The only measurement I am not sure of is where the hole goes for the ski pylon. If anyone has an 89 SN, can you provide me the measurements as well as size of hole? Does carpet go down inside hole?
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1413 |
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Trey....yes it is more than what you have, my thinking is that this area has been poor from when it was pulled from the mould, the dots you see are the roving pattern when removed leaving small gaps that over time have filled with dirt/grim from water in the foam/floor inside the hull.... that’s why it ground off so quick it was never well stuck with gaps.
My worry now is with all the new stringers in the hull it is much more ridged and will telegraph shock/flex up the sides finding that week spot damaging the gel with stress cracks. IMO just using the glass from the floor up the sides won’t be enough to support it as it looks to be thin about 12 inches along the floor line, better to build up first so all shock/flex will go all the way down the hull sides, and the floor joint will not pull at that point stressing the gel. If it was me once you have finished all the hull glassing make some home brew CPES and coat all the inside of the hull to 6inches above the water line to seal up the hull before laying the floor. |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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teelta
Senior Member Joined: February-22-2012 Location: Fort Worth, TX Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Roger, that is a lot of glass. That will be much thicker than what is there now. What I'm wondering is...the area will be glassed over anyway when I glass the floor so is it necessary to put anything on it now before the floor goes in?
Also wondering what is it? What is the area I sanded into that is white with dotted pattern? |
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cphase
Gold Member Joined: May-11-2010 Location: Newnan, GA Status: Offline Points: 795 |
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Fram Alert!!!
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1413 |
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Looks great Trey...as for the side I would Epoxy over with layers of cloth first start with a inch or so bigger than the thin area and each layer you add should over lap by a inch or so, say 3 or 4 layers then 3 layers of biax to finish....it is key to make sure there are no air gaps on the first cloth layers...if you are right at the back of the gel a air gap could blister later on.
Now with your epoxy skills this repair is easy |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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teelta
Senior Member Joined: February-22-2012 Location: Fort Worth, TX Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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I finally finished fiberglassing all 4 stringers!
I'm pleased with how they turned out. While it was too cold to work outside. I worked on painting/powder coating engine parts... I do have a question...I was sanding off the little edge of floor I left and I think started to run into the gel coat??? It was white with patterned dots. It will get more epoxy and fiberglass over it so should I just leave it or put extra fiberglass over it? Here is pic of the worst spot (the edge of the shadow).. |
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1413 |
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Sorry Trey I didn't answer all your points....as for the rough tops of your stringers how many layers are on them now.... [/QUOTE] Just one layer over the top. the 3 layers bonded to the side of the stringer to the hull.[/QUOTE] Trey, I would add another layer of biax to the top of the stringers.....try to run the 45 degree layer the other way to the one already laid, it’s not just for strength but to full enclose the wood stringer to stop moisture entering them, one layer could crack/damage over time. Once your done work out the thickness of the biax on the new and you can cut a notch out of the old and measure how thick it was remember there is around 1/16 + of gel over it, the new will be stronger than the old, my guess is there be around the same as your boat is a 89 and CC would have refined there methods from my old 78. |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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teelta
Senior Member Joined: February-22-2012 Location: Fort Worth, TX Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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[/QUOTE]
Sorry Trey I didn't answer all your points....as for the rough tops of your stringers how many layers are on them now.... [/QUOTE] Just one layer over the top. the 3 layers bonded to the side of the stringer to the hull. |
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1413 |
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Sorry Trey I didn't answer all your points....as for the rough tops of your stringers how many layers are on them now....when you say 3 layers is that 3 complete layers ... if so then as you work on the other stringers at the end of each batch of epoxy keep the left over’s in a tray as it stiffens up roll or brush over the tops or add some thickening you have and spread over ,the more you work with it you will see when it just right consistency to level out like in your bilge has in parts (a bit like honey).......it will still need to be pre sanded before each coat. When you cut out your secondary stringer you will need to grind back the old glass and as you go along the new main side feather (lightly grind) the edge back slopping down onto the hull around a inch or so to give a smooth lap, over the rest of the biax 60 or 80 if hand sanding. Measure the thickness of the finished stringer against the unfinished wood for the other side divide by 2 and that will give you a good Idea of what to allow for the biax so your cradle will fit back in.......I would then add an extra 3/16 for squeak room/epoxy paint. |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1413 |
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Hi Trey, If you have let the Epoxy dry fully (over 16 hours) then its sanding all over before the next layer,Check if your epoxy can Blush after fully drying if so wash off with soapy water then sand all over before re laying, I use a none blush epoxy over here.... If sanding by hand 60 or 80 grit will give a good key...you just need to take the shine off don't sand real hard. It look real good from over here glad it worked out for you. |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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