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Poor Man's GT40 Diagnosis

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Bri892001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Poor Man's GT40 Diagnosis
    Posted: April-14-2012 at 6:42pm
My idea for this thread is to have a place to summarize common GT40 problems and their solutions. Each Problem-Fix combination will be one datapoint. That way, there is a running reference. This would not be so much a place to ask questions, but a place to post the fix and a link to the thread where the problem was resolved.

My thinking is that the diagnosis for these motors is a little trickier, since they've moved beyond traditional tuning, but scan tools can be a little expensive and obscure as well. I'm going to attempt to update and re-post the following table as time goes on. I can also add/modify the problems and add new fixes as it becomes necessary.

Just because a problem has a found fix once, doesn't mean not to post it again. I'm hoping to come up with a true data table, that will show the probability for each fix. Here is my blank slate:

GT40 Spreadsheet on Google Docs
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harriss28 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harriss28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2012 at 8:53pm
There may be a way to get the codes without a scan tool using a test light or analog multimeter. One could also tie into the check engine light. Once wired to the check engine light on the dash, you could jump one wire and count the blinks of the check engine light.

The is for EEC-IV Ford engines. Im not sure if it will work for our boats, but I will let you know if it works.

http://www.thorssell.net/hbook/eectest.html

Shawn

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foot_Fungus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2012 at 12:51pm
While I'm sure CC used a varied PCM tune, I highly doubt they reinvented the wheel with the components and sensors. You should be able to scan these in much the same way you would scan its automotive variant. That being said the gt-40 is a super common engine and has several forums dedicated to it that have thousands of problem/solution threads. The majority of issues you would have on the boat version are probably well covered and common in the automotive forums. All we'd need to do is gather that info and put it over here.

To me pre obd-2 systems were always iffy on codes, I always had better luck finding someone with a related problem then breaking out the ohm meter to check the component that solved the problem.

That being said I think you're table is a good idea, gives people a quick list of common issues/solutions to check.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote east tx skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2012 at 3:17pm
I'll play.

Symptoms: Boat would start and idle fine. But when pulling up a skier, it would go about 10 yards and completely die. You'd wait about 15 seconds and it would restart, idle fine, and die on the hole shot.

Solution: Replace antisiphon valve.

Cost: $11

Labor time: About 20 minutes.
1998 Ski Nautique (Red & Silver Cloud); GT-40; Perfect Pass Stargazer; Acme 422.



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Bri892001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2012 at 4:08pm
Cool, thanks

Updated Spreadsheet
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Bri892001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2012 at 12:14pm
EEC Relay Fixed Engine Loping as described here:
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24848&PN=1&title=gt40-engine-loping

Updated the Spreadsheet with Lewy's findings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bohinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2012 at 4:27pm
Could we add part Numbers to the spreadsheet. Like for the eec relay. That is the same relay for the fuel pumps Right?
Billy
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Bri892001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2012 at 12:48pm
Billy, I think Lewy from the above other thread would know the answer as to whether that's the same relay. But yeah, if we can get a part# posted, I'll definitely add that info to the spreadsheet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2012 at 2:37am
Yes the fuel pump relay and EEC relay are the same. They are a Hella unit I have been trying to get my local Hella agent to source them. I dont think he is trying that hard a bit of Internet trolling came up with this pretty quick.

The Hella part # is 4RD 960 388-31.
The US Hella number is 87412.
PCM part # is R130011

You can also purchase a ECHLIN equivalent at NAPA pt # AR174 for $10.97

Skidim also stocks themGT40 Relays
If you're going through hell, keep going

89 Ski

<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bohinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2012 at 10:10am
The "IAP" idle motor is 2-1944, the MAP sensor is 2-19002 at NAPA.
Found this on a search
Billy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2012 at 6:24pm
Syptoms:

Fuel Pressure pump 15A breaker pops a few seconds after motor starts. Otherwise fuel pumps sound fine and there are no other symptoms indicating anything would be wrong.

Solution:

Low pressure pump in partial state of failure, drawing too many amps. Replace LPP.
2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI
https://forum.fifteenoff.com




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Bri892001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2012 at 6:30pm
Thanks Joel

I updated Spreadsheet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2012 at 6:31pm
Symptoms:

Check Engine light starts blinking intermittently at low RPM but goes away when RPM increases. After a while, check engine stays on and engine will go into limp mode at anything over 2700 RPM but work perfectly fine up to limp mode RPM. Oil pressure and water temp gauges reading normally.

Solution:

Notice the oil leaking out of the oil pressure switch, which is above the oil filter on a T'ed fitting shared with the oil pressure sensor sender. Replace oil pressure switch.

VACATION SAVING SHORT TERM TIP: Get a 1/4" brass plug from the hardware store and replace the switch with this plug. Then order the pressure switch and replace it when you can. With sensor wire detached, the incomplete circuit will turn off the check engine light.

The same or similar symptoms could be tied to failing water temp warning switch, which resides in a boss on the circulation pump.
2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI
https://forum.fifteenoff.com




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Bri892001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2012 at 6:54pm
Thanks again Joel. I updated the spreadsheet with a column containing a simplified description or the symptoms and added a row for Oil Pressure switch.

The sheet is always the same link, I just update the same one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote panda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2012 at 12:42am
Injectors



95 Ski Nautique GT40
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Bri892001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2012 at 12:49am
^^Did you replace the injectors?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote panda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2012 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by Bri892001 Bri892001 wrote:

^^Did you replace the injectors?


In the mail



95 Ski Nautique GT40
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Bri892001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-21-2012 at 1:15pm
New ECM fixed rough running, hesitation, little now power as documented here: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25775&PN=1&title=99-sn-gt40-fuel-supply

Updated Spreadsheet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2012 at 1:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silver15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-26-2012 at 1:55am
1998 Model GT40- Victim of neglect.
Problem 1: Boat had sat for a while. Would not start at all with proper fuel pressure, spark, and compression, but would run on fuel poured into the intake.
Solution: Replaced all injectors, they were completely plugged. You can pick them up for far below retail on ebay. They are 26lbs blue top injectors. Another good precaution would be to ensure that your fuel rail is clean and that all filters are clean and functioning to avoid the same problem again in the future.

Problem 2: No power to either of the fuel pumps.
Solution: The fuel pump relay (There are two- Ignition and Fuel) located on the rear on the engine had been damaged by moisture. Both ignition and fuel relays are interchangeable and cost about $20 a piece depending on where you purchase them.

Problem 3: Leaking water from around the base of the intake manifold (visible from exterior of engine while being run).
Solution: Removed the intake manifold. The four corners of the intake manifold must be set in silicon (we used high temp permatex) to prevent leakage. You shouldn't have to worry about this unless you have jostled around, or removed the manifold.
2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16

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Bri892001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2012 at 1:22am
^^ Updated Spreadsheet

I updated for the injectors and relays. I figure the intake manifold is more general mechanical. Thanks for the input.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2012 at 12:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-01-2012 at 12:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2012 at 3:27pm
Water needing to be drained from Fuel Control Cell caused no start condition here:
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26185&PID=337102#337102
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1994nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2012 at 3:27am
Can you tell me where the anti siphon valve is located? My 94 does the same stalling out every now and then when pulling up a skier. It acts like it floods out so I put it in neutral and start it with the throttle wide open. Then I can usually pull the skier up. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2012 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by 1994nautique 1994nautique wrote:

Can you tell me where the anti siphon valve is located? My 94 does the same stalling out every now and then when pulling up a skier. It acts like it floods out so I put it in neutral and start it with the throttle wide open. Then I can usually pull the skier up. Thanks!


There's a good picture of it in this thread:
http://www.nautiqueowner.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23090&PID=289854&title=anti-siphon-valve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1994nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2012 at 2:26am
Awesome! Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harriss28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2012 at 3:25pm
Intermitant no start


Sometimes a single click and no start-> faulty starter relay

found relay at advance auto. i believe it was off of a 60's or 70's dodge muscle car   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2012 at 12:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charlesml3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-16-2012 at 11:09am
Specifics:

1999 GT-40 EFI. 671 hours. Well maintained since new but never tuned up.

Symptom:

Lumpy idle. Clear raw fuel smell at the exhaust when idling. Obvious miss/skip from idle speed up to around 2100RPM. Occasional miss at cruise speeds if you listen carefully.

Solution:

Replace distributor cap and rotor. The original cap and rotor were clearly worn and pitted. The boat ran great after this. $44.

Also:

New plug wires, new spark plugs, new fuel filter and raw water impeller. Might as well do it all. The boat hasn't run this smooth in years. Total cost was $200 and it took about an hour to replace everything.
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