Damn.

The new HO Syndicate 01 slalom ski was $2,199...with a special "show price" of $1,980.

Double damn.

I did meet Will Asher at the Boat Show.  Very nice guy.  Friendly and approachable.  I played "tourist" and got a photo with Will.  The HO promo guy told me that Will ran 6 @ 41 off at the last tourney.

Triple damn.

Then I went home -- sad singing and slow walking.

JQ

https://ibb.co/n0d4PK8" rel="nofollow">

Yeah, and they wonder way slalom skiing is becoming a lost art.  Thing is, you dont need a $180,000 boat and a $2,000 ski to have fun or even be pretty good. They just dont want you to know it.

As far as Will skiing 41 off.  No small feat.  Not sure of the exact status, Paid somewhat close attention in 21, but not so much in 22 but, only, I think it is, 12ish skiers have ever completed 41 off.  It might be more now, there were a couple of very good performances last year.  When you think about it, that's the same number of people who have walked on the moon.  Nate's record of 2 1/2 at 43 off has stood for about 10 years.

When the latest iteration of the Ski Nautique came out in 2019, it was the ridiculous price of $120,000 and the "price point" 200 (supposedly for clubs/camps/teams) was a mere $80,000.  The 200 base price is now $106,000.  A camp a friend of mine is associated with just bought a 200.  Not anything special or lots of options and it was $120,000. List (base) on a new Ski Nautique is $155,0000 so Im sure it doesnt take too many bells and whistles to get it up to $180,000.  Good thing we are skiers and not fancy pants surfers, a Paragon g25 starts at 395.

https://ibb.co/m8DxvDm" rel="nofollow">

Here's a link to all kinds of boats and their MSRP and dealer cost and also to all kinds of other things and their MSRP and dealer cost

http://seedealercost.com/marine/browse/manufacturer/manufacturer/6111/manufacturer/6111" rel="nofollow - link  to the "Nautiques" page for 2023 but plenty of other brands listed too.

And with a little surfing you can find the price of all the options too by clicking on the boat you want to get the info for.

I'm gonna guess that the price is for a boat without a trailer 

Being a little less than what Larry posted, maybe these were last weeks prices or something, but you get the idea  

Feels out of whack though -- like something has to give.  

Unlike this guy who looks like he's having a blast in a well used and abused Mex Nautique 

https://ibb.co/kqgynHc" rel="nofollow">

I think that was the optional multipurpose driver's seat.

Do ya really need that $100K plus slalom boat to run the same bouys you ran with the $40K boat?

its all a big scam and miss direction within the competition  boat  aspect of the sport. Wakes are really no better then most of the mid 90's and early 2000's hulls in comparison to these new engine sleds that these manufacturers are calling boats.

there are rumors in the world that there will be one of the three manufacturers discontinue building three event boats altogether..

I know at Nautique they have far more mouths to feed then it really takes to manufacture  and produce a boat. 

skis are posted as scary prices but in reality they are not. Goodes have been $1000 plus for nearly 20 years. The prices of skis have been held relative low in respect to how much boats have been jacked up price wise.

 

Keep in mind what many are missing is that watersking is not declining, its the competitive organization known as AWSA/USAWS that has diminished greatly.

fanofccfan wrote: I would venture to guess that less than 1% of the wakeboarders on our little lake could not jump wake to wake on my little boat and yet they think they need the big boy!  There is a guy that can throw big flips but he is behind a 16 foot 80 horse outboard fishing boat that produces about 8" of ramp.  That is skill and fun to watch. .

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This is my nephew behind either a dd inboard or his buddy's I/O, dont know which, but thats all they had access to back when this was taken.  Cracks me up on the surf forums. These guys go out and drop a quarter of a million dollars on a boat then ask on the forums how much lead they should buy and where should they put it.  At that price, dont you think these boats would be ready to go vs having to buy lead or barrels of whale blubber or whatever to get the wake "just right"

rebel skier wrote: Feels out of whack though -- like something has to give.

My dad and grandpa both spent most of their working life at a luxury boat manufacturer (think 30-60' fishing and pleasure craft). These stories from the boat shows give me 2006-2007 vibes... Eventually you run out of people who can pay, but by the time you realize it you are already 1-2 years beyond the demand/price peak and the factory is competing against an excess of unsold "new" or lightly used inventory. Recipe for disaster. The builder my dad worked for barely survived the '08 crash, and had to turn their fiberglass skills to far less nautical pursuits (e.g., building large windmill blades) to get through. It took them close to a decade to recover, but they'd lost the majority of their workforce in the meantime. It is risky selling a luxury product that the uber rich don't bother with and the average joe cannot afford.

Re: newbies dropping a mortgage on a boat they don't have the first bit of skill to use I can only say, "The poor craftsman blames his tools."

What's odd tho, is that it is the quarter million dollar surf boats that are saving the industry.  Compared to dozens in the 80s maybe 90s, there are now only three  direct drive/3 event boats on the market and Bu, MC and Nautique only make/sell a handful of them a year.  Meanwhile there are a dozen or more surf barge builders and, at least Nautique, cant build them fast enough with up to a year lead time.

Not that I am anywhere near ready to sell it BTW.

 Another neighbor owns a Moomba and surfs a lot. Always extends an invitation to go with him and a couple other neighbors who surf. He sees us diehard slalom guys go out all the time and finally took me up on an invite to slalom. Took him about 3 tries to get up but finally got it. The smile on his face was worth the price of admission and when he got back in the boat he said" Man that was fun! That was an adrenaline rush! He bought a slalom ski this winter as he wants to swerve with us more and get introduced to the course.

 The prices of these new ski tugs makes the 99 I just bought last year makes me even happier that I did it and you couldn't slap the grin off my face with a 2x4 every time I see the MSRP on a new ski tug. The guy who sold it to me was selling it to get a pontoon. It's all just Freaking crazy. Guess now I know why CC has branched out and acquired other mfgs. I think they are protecting their brand when/if the bottom falls out.

Don't see me selling any of the Morfleet EVER! They are probably an investment!

^^^ Agree on the business diversification strategy, though they are of course still heavily invested in the industry but at least along a few price points/adjacent entertainment options.

Maybe all the 2022's are sold to dealers or something, but if I check the inventory at the closest Nautique dealer to me (the only dealer in NH), as of today they have 13 2022 leftovers in stock, 2 of those 13 are sale pending. The other 11 .............well they must be waiting for somebody to come along.

Maybe they're lousy at updating their website......maybe not.

Maybe all these were ordered and people backed out.

Maybe people are waiting for the really big discount.

Maybe the sales numbers are counted up in some funny way by CC.

A few more of the Mexinautique to keep ya smiling and reminiscing Bill.

https://ibb.co/xFNhZW0" rel="nofollow">

https://ibb.co/vLFsWyL" rel="nofollow">

Here's my take.  $50,000 pickup trucks are now 75k, 65k ones are hitting 100k.  I hear people saying "nobody will buy them" but obviously they are leaving the lots, in fact have to be ordered in many cases due to lack of availability.  Yes things go up and down and maybe interest rates and other economic factors will drop sales and create inventory, we'll see.

Boats are even more inflated, but I think we frugal do-it-yourselfers tend to underestimate the amount of people on all our lakes that have stupid amounts of money.  You'd be surprised how many of these surf boats are bought for cash, and replaced after 3-4 seasons for no reason other than a desire for new and shiny and status.  I think many here mention that people think they need the latest most expensive model to surf or wake or ski better, but if you really delved into it they need the latest for status, not because they really think it will make a performance difference.

What does surprise me a bit is that there isn't a Bayliner type option for ski/wake/surf, someone making a lower quality boat that competes with the expensive ones geared to sell to people of more modest means. You'd think it would sell.  But maybe the build out and marketing effort needed is so expensive that only a current big manufacturer could roll it out and they have no incentive to do so.

Ahhh, but there is....

https://www.heydaywakeboats.com/" rel="nofollow - Wake Boats, Wakeboarding, Wake Surfing & Ski Boats | Heyday (heydaywakeboats.com)

This spring, in addition to the usual stuff (impeller, oil/filter, clean, wax) I got a buffer and buffed/polished/waxed the hull/deck that was getting a little hazy.  Quite pleased with the result.  Well that and some (not all, yet) new upholstery, and I will proudly pull my 27 year old boat up alongside any $150,000 ski tug.

Larry, in a lot of way I couldn't agree with you more.  Do we need a new boat for what most of us do in or behind the boat, absolutely not. Depends on the setting.  Unless you're skiing in the course a ton and getting into short line.  I doubt you'll see a major difference.  

Having the opportunity to spend 40-50 hours a year in new Nautique Promo's and newer "other brands" over the past few years, I have to say the experience drastically different both in and behind the boat.  Is it necessary, no.  There is a huge difference when you're pulling hours on end with a wide-variety of abilities and ages at a tournament or ski school.  Pulling a clinic or tournament in an old rig can be exhausting.  The new Nautique is a WAY better experience when swapping skiers every 10-15 min and turning islands at each end.  

Then there's the PP/ZO conversation.  At our former club lake, the older / PP (StarGazer) boats struggled to get up to speed and not overshoot before the 55's at 34 & 36. Being a big dude, skiing at 36mph at a short lake was almost impossible - 55's were slow, gates & 1 were consistently fast, 2/3 was slow and 4 ball typically flew by at mach-speed with the boat trying to catch up.  Most times, I didn't care but our TC's and our better drivers were always frustrated with Stargazer.  ZO creates a more consistent ride and certainly helped my progression behind the boat....once I learned how to stand on the ski the right way.  

At the end of the rope, skiing faster speeds and shorter lines behind the new Nautique is a completely different feel IMHO.  The only way I can explain it was what I called the "the swing set // underdog feeling" coming off the second wake.  If you can stay connected to the handle off the second wake it feels like you're getting a nice push in your lower back making it really easy to get up on the boat without much input from the skier.  We don't experience the exact same feeling in our re-powered 409/ZO 01SN.  

Then there's the driver input conversation.  A bad driver can make the best boat feel like sh*t.  A good driver can make an old boat damn near the same as a newer/ZO boat.  That's a different conversation.

Long story short......are the new boats necessary, no? Am I glad they keep making them so I can buy one in 10-15 years, you bet!

  

That's a new one on me.  Not a good looking boat IMO, not sure who styled them or why.  Prices are reasonable.  On their whole web site, unless I missed it, there is no mention of where the company is located.

Other companies did the same thing too, with the same end results

Or maybe a list of the cheaper wake boats built these days, that people immediately like to pick on for being "inferior" one way or another

To build a sub 20' boat is not financially conducive for most all current boat builders as the shear cost of materials has increased substantially across the board. manufacturers  have to profit on their investment in these materials. fiberglass resin by the gallon or pound, bigger boat bigger profit margin. Gadgets!! it;s not like the Auto industry where a half a million units are available and supported for many years. less then a 100 direct drive boats built by a manufacturer that the other 90% is big barge platforms. this drives the cost of the electronic gadgets sky high and support three years down the road....Replacement Linc unit near $5K.

Again many of these manufacturer's have a lot of mouths to feed.

A smaller boat company like Sanger might be able to pull off a sub $70K tournament boat but for some money is no object! bring on the $200k slalom tug!

My favorite boat was a 14' outboard runabout with classic lines and a 50 hp Merc.  Was thinking it would be a great boat for $15-$20k.  Boat show price was $46,900.

Of course, this isn't strictly true since new dams do generate a LOT more shoreline. But my guess is that most places that could have a large dam with a lake behind them already do. So we can safely assume that there is a relatively fixed supply of this part of the equation.

On the other hand, we are making more people. A LOT more people. Just since I was born (closing in on 40) there are 100 MILLION more people in the US; a 40% increase from ~235M to ~331M. On top of that, wage gains have been highly unequal since the 80s meaning that while the lower 80% or so of the population have about the same wealth (adjusted for inflation) the top 20% have reaped nearly all the gains in economic growth.

So we've got a LOT more people a good portion of which have a LOT more money all clamoring for other things like waterfront property they "ain't making more of"; neighborhoods, ski slopes, prestigious colleges, etc.

I think the "law" of supply and demand accounts for much/most of the inflation in the cost of those goods and services I mentioned, along with many many others. Since we've already crossed well into the $125k+ for a ski tug range now, I'd say under "Business As Usual" (e.g., no major and prolonged economic crash) we've got no more than 10 years before that number doubles to $250k (~7%+ price change per year, which seems conservative). And under BAU the top model wakeboard boats should hit $1M no later than ~2045, though my guess would be something more like 15 years from now.

Great post Jamin, you really make a great case for why these boats sell.  In my earlier post I said there's lots of people with stupid amounts of money, you spent the time to really put details to the argument.

Thanks David. I spent many years on state flagship university campuses, some of that pondering how they'd changed in the past and what they might look like in the future. I've also spent a potentially unhealthy amount of time reading and thinking about population growth as it relates to, well, nearly everything (especially things like politics in a society where the population has increased dramatically but the rules that govern our systems have not changed much, if at all). So I have a lot of sunk time costs on this line of argument already, and happy to support your point with some numbers ;)

James, that just isn't going to work, everyone knows you can't pull kids on skis or boards behind an $11,000 boat.  Have to spend a minimum of 6 figures.

You took the approach of most people here, and you're right, the quality of the boats lets us enjoy affordable ones built quite a while ago.  If you choose to you could move up a few decades over the years, maybe to a mid '90's NWZ and then to an early 2000's SN, and still be working within a reasonable budget.  I'm not saying you should, just that all of us have that option and get to drive really great boats at a fraction of the new prices.

I do wonder a bit about 20 years from now, what will people that want a used boat in an affordable price range have for buying options.

Did I want it?  Sure.  Did I need it?  No.  Would I ski better behind it as compared to my 2001 SNOB with TSC1 hull?  Doubtful.  Would it enhance my on-the-water enjoyment?  Yes.  But, not $100,000+ worth of extra enjoyment.

I'll be keeping "Miss March" for years to come.  

Now the concept of a warmed-up & stroked SBF making 400 ponies may get my attention...

JQ

Wait, your wife gave approval for WHAT??? 

I agree.  I doubt I'll find a need or want to replace my boat, you never know but I don't think so.  I'll likely end up re-powering in some way when the GT-40 gets too quirky, but beyond that it does everything I want.

63 Skier wrote: James, that just isn't going to work, everyone knows you can't pull kids on skis or boards behind an $11,000 boat.  Have to spend a minimum of 6 figures.  You took the approach of most people here, and you're right, the quality of the boats lets us enjoy affordable ones built quite a while ago.  If you choose to you could move up a few decades over the years, maybe to a mid '90's NWZ and then to an early 2000's SN, and still be working within a reasonable budget.  I'm not saying you should, just that all of us have that option and get to drive really great boats at a fraction of the new prices. I do wonder a bit about 20 years from now, what will people that want a used boat in an affordable price range have for buying options.

When I was approaching the $10K mark in repairs on my boat I started looking around(I don't recommend this when you've already gotten to a point of no return lol) on craigslist for comparable boats in that price range and there was a BEAUTIFULLY maintained 94SN(NWZ?) a couple hours away. He was asking $13,500 which I though was a great price for the condition and considering I was fast approaching that number with my own project. But you're right, it is in the back of my mind to upgrade to mid 90's then eventually to a 2000's SN. Hopefully someday a SNOB as a little more real estate inside would be nice with the wife and 3 boys.

I got her out on the water and finally ironed out some issues I was having and now I'm just waiting for the weather to get better and the water to warm up so I can start using it! It won't stop raining here in northern California... What's the weather like there in NH? When does your water skiing season start? How late in the year do you water ski?

We had a foot of snow last Friday/Saturday, still a long way to go till ski season.  Generally I'll have a boat in the water in May, might ski on a nice day if people are around, but weekly skiing doesn't start until some time in June.  We go into September and occasionally ski into October.

Relatively short season unless you push it with the cold water spring and fall.  We'll be boating over 6 months, May through October, but maybe not skiing at both ends.